Why the obsession with "Leica Killers?"

[Lss]

You have a choice between two cameras. They will use the same lens. Camera A has a rangefinder good as any today. Camera B has a very very good EVF, which with practice can focus as fast. Camera B image quality is 10% better.

Which do you want?

The two products would be different at least in the way you frame and compose. Therefore it remains a matter of preference.

It's difficult to picture everything else being equal when it isn't. Should 10% better translate into a significant increase in number of usable photographs, it may trump preference. In reality however preference may be derived from getting a higher number of usable photographs in the first place. It's a moving target, isn't it?

 

[burancap]

If the decisive variable is image quality ... we would all have Sigmas.

 

[Rogier]

Simply because those who can't afford a real Leica want to complain about it just because they have so settle with a substitute.
Same frustrated guys' who claim the 370Z will kill the 911. Perhaps on paper. But not by refinement, style, handling, quality and history.
Give the whiner the funds and he/she will run to buy the real deal 🙄

 

[uhoh7]

Simply because those who can't afford a real Leica want to complain about it just because they have so settle with a substitute.
Same frustrated guys' who claim the 370Z will kill the 911. Perhaps on paper. But not by refinement, style, handling, quality and history.
Give the whiner the funds and he/she will run to buy the real deal 🙄

Koolaid, anyone?

Just kidding. I'm a huge Leica fan myself, and would love an M9. M240...well doesn't matter since it's unobtanium. Sure it's a matter of money. If I had loads I'd have the 9...and buy the Sony, since it does alot of tricks the 9 cannot. Great backup too.

and I can't even afford the 370:

 

[icebear]

Shane,
thanks, you're welcome.
Klaus

 

[Rodchenko]

Simply because those who can't afford a real Leica want to complain about it just because they have so settle with a substitute.
Same frustrated guys' who claim the 370Z will kill the 911. Perhaps on paper. But not by refinement, style, handling, quality and history.
Give the whiner the funds and he/she will run to buy the real deal 🙄

Give that stuff a while to rot down, it'll be great on the roses.

 

[uhoh7]

from another thread on the same subject:

its such a downer reading these threads, and realising how 'unenthusiastic' are camera 'enthusiasts' whenever a new product is released. its always about putting it down, tamping enthusiasm, what it cant do, why its not better than i have now, and how real photgraphers make magic with a pinhole poked through dog poop. whats wrong with enjoying the advances of technology, looking forward to them and embracing them with 'enthusiasm'? maybe the latest isnt right for you, but how about seeing past that to why it might be right for lots of others?!

honestly, this thread should be entitlled 'im sitting in a yurt listening to my walkman and cleaning my behind with a leaf--who's with me'?

i'm tuning this out and instead venturing forth to take pictures with dog poop...

well said sir! Yes, the new Leica disembowler also sharpens wit 😉

meanwhile:
Industar 61 on a7 (not r)

Krzysztof Szablisty
lens:

btw, a7r is sold out till Jan at many outlets, supposedly.

On the otherhand, M9s down to 3500 in good shape, which getting tempting. I may be able to earn enough with A7r to grab one 😉

 

[Soeren]

Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality.

Open your eyes,
Look up to the skies and see,
I'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy,
Because I'm easy come, easy go,
Little high, little low,
Any way the wind blows doesn't really matter to me, to me.

Mama, just killed a Leica,
Put a gun against it's head,
Pulled my trigger, now it's dead.
Mama, life had just begun,
But now I've gone and thrown it all away.

Mama, ooh,
Didn't mean to make you cry,
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow,
Carry on, carry on as if nothing really matters

.........................................................
...........................................

 

[j j]

j_j ... did you really think you were going to be able to google "Leica Killers" and find a lot of information?

Your thread title mentions obsession and your opening post included the question "What is with every rumor site and spec chaser calling every mirrorless camera that hasn't been released yet a "Leica Killer?"" so I looked for some examples. There were few enough to conclude that the phrase is championed mostly by this thread.

 

[jsrockit]

Your thread title mentions obsession and your opening post included the question "What is with every rumor site and spec chaser calling every mirrorless camera that hasn't been released yet a "Leica Killer?"" so I looked for some examples. There were few enough to conclude that the phrase is championed mostly by this thread.

Sigh, let me explain something. I didn't decide to make this post after seeing people talk of Leicas demise for a few weeks. It's been years of looking at rumors and seeing the same argum,ents happen. People will not necessarily say "Leica Killer" always. They will say "Goodbye Leica" or "Nobody will buy a Leica after this is announced" or something to that effect. Look around at the new Sony and posts made about it... it is the latest Killer of camera brands!!!

 

[Michael Markey]

I understand perfectly where your coming from John.
The best that you can say about it is that its unimaginative.

 

[icebear]

People who by "Leica killers" will never be satisfied with whatever they have.
They will by the next one as soon as it is coming up, going for more and faster killings per seconds :bang: 😀.

 

[Rodchenko]

I've never bought a camera for its relation to another brand, least of all Leica.

I've bought them to take pictures.

Occasionally, though, I have to confess, I have been disappointed. This may have been more to do with my ability than the hardware. 😀

 

[uhoh7]

Here's a picture for you 🙂

nocti A7r f/1 by yofredmoik (FM user)

 

[jsrockit]

People who by "Leica killers" will never be satisfied with whatever they have.
They will by the next one as soon as it is coming up, going for more and faster killings per seconds :bang: 😀.

Probably Klaus, Probably. Then they will buy a Leica.

 

[furcafe]

True, but still 9 pages longer than that for a manual-focus SLR or RF. 😉

I totally agree w/your point about understanding the system(s), that's true for any tool, but many of us who haven't been keeping up w/AF technology over the years *do* have read the manual, e.g., it took me a couple hours to figure out how to get my D700 to work like an 1980s SLR (the D700 being my 1st SLR of any kind w/autofocus).

Well, the D3's manual's section on focus, auto and manual, is a scant 10 pages. Ten.

Very large type.

Generously kerned and spaced.

Lots of pictures.

In the tradition of many Japanese camera makers, much of it a collection of the "self-evident" and "obvious" with the occasional "if you didn't know that, you probably shouldn't be out of the house unescorted."

Ahem.

Again, thank you for the manual. I've saved the PDF.

 

[furcafe]

I will always pick A, no matter who makes it, because it's more fun for me to use on a daily basis & that, not "image quality", is the biggest factor in my photography.

For that reason, I see the A7r as more of a "Nikon D800E (or Canon equivalent) killer", not a "Leica killer". Now if Sony had gone & made a "Alpha Hexar" by putting the A7r sensor into an updated Hexar RF body, *that* would be a "Leica M (240) killer".

The great focusing controversies are layered. AF v MF is huge, obviously. AF marked the end of the romantic era. Like when fighter aircraft moved to AA missiles, with increasingly advanced guidance systems.

Next we have RF vs SLR vs EVF. Since prisms don't apply in the current context (A7r aka Leica Killer) Let's call it RF vs EVF.

I can hear the blood pressure going way up already 🙂

It's only in the last 2 years this could be a serious comparison, and if you have not looked through a nex EVF or an OM-D EVF, you really have no idea on the current level of EVFs.

For a monster corp making everything, Sony has gone to pretty big pains to make manual focus on the Nex system fast and accurate.

The EVFs are super sharp, show DOF as it will appear in the image, magnify to any area of the image, and offer nine flavors of focus peaking.

RFs I think are way cool (i own three) but I'm used to Nex, and can focus just as fast with them.

But no way to overestimate the RF nostalgia here. Its a badge of honor, and loyalty is very very high.

The view through glass is organic, while view into TV is electronic, no way around it.

Let's forget about Sony and Leica for a sec. You have a choice between two cameras. They will use the same lens. Camera A has a rangefinder good as any today. Camera B has a very very good EVF, which with practice can focus as fast. Camera B image quality is 10% better.

Which do you want?

If your answer is A, what % superior image quality would it take to make you choose B?

 

[j j]

Sigh, let me explain something. I didn't decide to make this post after seeing people talk of Leicas demise for a few weeks. It's been years of looking at rumors and seeing the same argum,ents happen. People will not necessarily say "Leica Killer" always. They will say "Goodbye Leica" or "Nobody will buy a Leica after this is announced" or something to that effect. Look around at the new Sony and posts made about it... it is the latest Killer of camera brands!!!

Your point was easy to understand already thank you. You posed the question and I just happen to disagree with your premise.

There is some anti-Leica stuff on the Internet but I don't see anti-Leica obsessives around every corner online or when out and about.

 

[jsrockit]

Your point was easy to understand already thank you. You posed the question and I just happen to disagree with your premise.

There is some anti-Leica stuff on the Internet but I don't see anti-Leica obsessives around every corner online or when out and about.

Ok, my last try... you will not be able to do an internet search and find what I'm talking about... it's too scattered and over too long of an amount of time. Also, who said anything about being out and about?

So, did you look at the Sony A7 threads and rumors (at RFF and elsewhere)? Did you not see anyone talking about Leica and its prices?

 

[uhoh7]

gentleman (and ladies), the battle has commenced:

A7r with the troublesome cv ultra wides 🙂

these lenses the property of Head Bartender, BTW