Will you pay $7,195 for the new 50 'cron Asph?

[jippiejee]

Erm . . I know I shouldn't be posting this . . .I really know I shouldn't.
Nobody will agree with me, and I'll be tagged as a Leica apologist . . but what the hell, I'm going to anyway.

Ha. I just listened to your seriouscompacts podcast about it. Very interesting indeed. And there's nothing wrong with creating the best 50mm lens ever.

 

[Livesteamer]

I'll wait till they make this lens in Leica screw mount. Just right for my old IIIc. Grin. Joe

 

[Araakii]

A lens can not deliver more than what could be "handled" by the sensor it's used on.

A good lens on a 20MP sensor results in a higher resolution than what a “stratospheric” lens could do on a 10MP sensor. Physics…

General trend is toward lightning fast and accurate AF.. Even the less-than-$1000 bodies today are delivering AF features equal to what was featured by 6-times costing pro-bodies two years ago. "Manual-focus-only" lenses have questionable future, whether we like it or not. (Not any different than the present situation of the R-lenses.)

Optical engineers work with different design philosophies compared to yesterday. To cope up with complications of the shorter register distances (mirrorless) they employ different techniques than relying on pure optical solutions. To combat with CA, vignetting, distortion, aberrations and some other optical deficiencies, engineers are applying to software solutions to not “stretch” the physical limits and consequently to end up with excessive costs. This is the “smarter” design route in the digital age and the fruits of this approach is apparent: the 20/1.7 Panasonic is a great lens by all standards for $350, there are a number of lenses by Olympus as well as Fujifilm to be regarded as great.. great like the Leica lenses are.. However their prices are within the affordable limits for the majority of the camera users. (BTW, even the Leica engineers are applying the same techniques for almost all their WA lenses on the M9.)

Engineering is not defined as the art of “who would p** further” at the first rate, it’s prime goal is to employ science for the practical benefits of human beings. The Aspherical Summicron could be the greatest 50mm lens ever produced, so what? A couple of weeks later some users will start posting the RAW files of the D800E with the 50/2 Macro Planar or even the lowly 50/1.8G Nikkor costing $220.. And we will be the judge to see how a $16K set would stand against the one costing around a quarter of it.

But since all these other camera makers are catering to the lower end of the market, who will serve the high end of the market if Leica doesn't do it? If someone has $10,000 spare change, you got to find something to sell to the person.

 

[Araakii]

And Leica doesn't need to make any more things for working photographers. Real photographers already have more than enough tools to work with. The ones who really want the new Leica stuff are just lusting over the latest stuff like the rich guys do.

 

[icebear]

This thread is really amazing ... in a bad way.

All the folks almost harrassing Leica for developing cutting edge technology optical tools and asking a steep price for them in order to keep doing this, are you sometimes look in the mirror and try to be honest for a short moment?

"Darn, I'd lover to take this new Monochrome and the Apo 2/50 out for a ride, if just Leica would give it to me for free, I'd stop all this bitching an moaning. Oh this life is so unfair to me. Others have bigger * (insert: cars, houses, yachts, whatever) but most importantly the have these cameras with the red dot. Oh, I feel so envious, I'd almost throw up".

I can't think of better support of photographers than servicing 40 or 50 year old lenses that can still be used on the latest release camera body. The only service my M6 required so far was, when I decided to have the finder upgraded. Otherwise it is still going strong after 25(?) years. I had 2 T90 and both had shutter mechanics issues at the tender age of maybe 6. $250 bucks each.

If your photographer job doesn't pay for the tools, then ... draw your own conclusions.

This discussion is seriously revealing the envious character of most people. Instead of being angry you should relax and be glad that there is something new on the market which some people might affort but a lot of people will never. Either they don't have the money or they have other priorities in life. Of course are these price tags insane for what the product is : a lens or a camera. But it's not just any camera or any lens and there are alternatives for everybody at every price point, go get 'em, they just don't come with the red dot.
Don't loose any sleep over this folks. Take it easy 😉 😛 😀

 

[sanmich]

With all due respect, this makes zero business sense. In fact, it's still on the May 10 price list and it should continue to be there for the duration.

Robert,
I really hope I'm wrong on this one, but I don't remember them keeping a model in production after they have introduced an upgrade.

 

[bob338]

It'll be there till they sell out of them. Leica's business model is to be the photographic Rolex. Well, Rolex in price. Unlike digital Leicas, Rolexes do work perfectly without having to be repaired multiple times for stupid problems that don't affect Nikons and Canons (Seikos and Bulovas).

What's wrong with Rolexes?

 

[Araakii]

I started to spell "it" out for you more slowly this time seeing that
you saw fit to single me out with your retort to my post.
But, I doubt you'd understand where this is coming from and after all
I'd just be wasting my time.
"It" really is not about expensive items or thinking we have a right to own Leica gear (a totally ridiculous assertion) but rather about the absurdity of moral values that a $7000 50mm/2 lens for 35mm photography represents when there really is a whole world out there where people perish everyday for lack of the "bare necessities of life" but for all you care, your only concern is that people know you have money to spare.

Your logic applies to every discretionary spending and every single American makes this kind of spending every single day. When you drive your car to somewhere, do you think of all the people in this world that can only commute by foot? There are kids somewhere in this world who walk 6 hours a day just to go to school.

 

[semilog]

What's wrong with Rolexes?

They're not as accurate or as reliable as a garden variety Casio G Shock, and they are at least as unattractive as a G Shock. Aside from those shortcomings, nothing. But, then, I think that jewelry worn as a signifier of socioeconomic status is a bit tawdry. That goes double when it's mainly the nameplate, and not intrinsic craftsmanship or design excellence that serves as the signifier of status.

 

[Steve Ash]

Everything I've heard suggests that's exactly what they're going to do (keep the standard sum micron in production)

Right the first sentence of the apo summicron asph product brochure confirms that the normal summicron stays in production.

http://en.leica-camera.com/assets/file/download.php?filename=file_6721.pdf

Regards,
Steve

 

[BobYIL]

But since all these other camera makers are catering to the lower end of the market, who will serve the high end of the market if Leica doesn't do it? If someone has $10,000 spare change, you got to find something to sell to the person.

1. This is a photography forum, not Beverly Hills Polo Club. We come here to exchange ideas, experiences and learn what we need to learn.

2. Here we have working photographers, photojournalists and amateurs; all are from any income level. Any new product, process or idea is discussed openly and people express what they have in mind as free individuals away from commercial considerations.

3. Here a lot of persons have been with Leica, using Leica probably more than the years you have lived through. Lot's of them are still loyal Leica users. Some others have started to use Leica newly. Most of us are using Leicas actively and in a number different ways. The realities with the use of Leica is here, right in this forum... We expect it to be the feedback gathered from these real Leica users to shape the future of Leica; rather than the one tailored to attract a certain sector who regard it not much different than a prestige object.

4. As a Leica user since 49 years, I have never experienced a period in which Leica has been ridiculed as in these few days following May the 10th "The Essentials".

So it's not our concern to ponder about "If someone has $10,000 spare change, you got to find something to sell to the person.", this is childish; nobody in this forum would even need to mind about it. Our concern is Leica is seeming of slowly turning his back to those loyal customers who made Leica what it was until now.

The sad side of this: Some of those who could afford the new Leica products with their left hand began to switch to other brands. Justification of cost...

(Araakii: With these above, I hope you learned a few things more to mind about posting with more insight. BTW, you do not need to blow Leica's horn as the majority of the Leica users here know Leica better than you do. And there really are zillions of ways to spend "$10.000 spare change"..don't concern..)

 

[Araakii]

(Araakii: With these above, I hope you learned a few things more to mind about posting with more insight. BTW, you do not need to blow Leica's horn as the majority of the Leica users here know Leica better than you do. And there really are zillions of ways to spend "$10.000 spare change"..don't concern..)

I never said I know much about Leica. And I don't really care how much they price their products and where they are going. I just don't understand all these negativities towards a company that 1) makes great new products 2) doesn't exploit 3rd world workers 3) keeps a fair share of production within its own country 4) maintains a product line that is still active and relevant after 70 something years and probably other good things that I can't think of right now.

I don't even use much Leica stuff now. But I have great respect for them as a company. I can't say the same for that many American companies.

 

[rxmd]

1. This is a photography forum, not Beverly Hills Polo Club. We come here to exchange ideas, experiences and learn what we need to learn.

2. Here we have working photographers, photojournalists and amateurs; all are from any income level. Any new product, process or idea is discussed openly and people express what they have in mind as free individuals away from commercial considerations.

3. Here a lot of persons have been with Leica, using Leica probably more than the years you have lived through. Lot's of them are still loyal Leica users. Some others have started to use Leica newly. Most of us are using Leicas actively and in a number different ways. The realities with the use of Leica is here, right in this forum... We expect it to be the feedback gathered from these real Leica users to shape the future of Leica; rather than the one tailored to attract a certain sector who regard it not much different than a prestige object.

4. As a Leica user since 49 years, I have never experienced a period in which Leica has been ridiculed as in these few days following May the 10th "The Essentials".

So it's not our concern to ponder about "If someone has $10,000 spare change, you got to find something to sell to the person.", this is childish; nobody in this forum would even need to mind about it. Our concern is Leica is seeming of slowly turning his back to those loyal customers who made Leica what it was until now.

The sad side of this: Some of those who could afford the new Leica products with their left hand began to switch to other brands. Justification of cost...

(Araakii: With these above, I hope you learned a few things more to mind about posting with more insight. BTW, you do not need to blow Leica's horn as the majority of the Leica users here know Leica better than you do. And there really are zillions of ways to spend "$10.000 spare change"..don't concern..)

I'm not sure what it is that you're lecturing Araakii on, but it does baffle me a bit that some of you guys seem to get so worked up and emotional over this all of a sudden. What's the source of disappointment? Leica has been making luxury goods for ages (what did you think, back then, the LHSA special editions and Sultan of Brunei Leicas are all about?). These threads make it seem that you guys all of a sudden discovered something that, after all, been around for a long time. Is there some kind of disenchantment going on?

 

[Hatch]

I started to spell "it" out for you more slowly this time seeing that
you saw fit to single me out with your retort to my post.
But, I doubt you'd understand where this is coming from and after all
I'd just be wasting my time.
"It" really is not about expensive items or thinking we have a right to own Leica gear (a totally ridiculous assertion) but rather about the absurdity of moral values that a $7000 50mm/2 lens for 35mm photography represents when there really is a whole world out there where people perish everyday for lack of the "bare necessities of life" but for all you care, your only concern is that people know you have money to spare.

You respond in this way and dare talk about morality?

 

[davidtan]

I never said I know much about Leica. And I don't really care how much they price their products and where they are going. I just don't understand all these negativities towards a company that 1) makes great new products 2) doesn't exploit 3rd world workers 3) keeps a fair share of production within its own country 4) maintains a product line that is still active and relevant after 70 something years and probably other good things that I can't think of right now.

I don't even use much Leica stuff now. But I have great respect for them as a company. I can't say the same for that many American companies.

Almost all of Leica's camera components have been made in Portugal since 1973. The same is true for their other non-photographic products like sport optics. The parts are sent to Germany for assembly. Why Portugal? The story goes that Albert Leitz personally found the country lovely and the workers skilled. But one should also notice that Portugal has relatively low labor costs compared to other nations in W. Europe, and that it currently resides in the Eurozone - to the benefit of European companies that want to save on exchange costs.

Portugal isn't a third world country, but it isn't necessarily as "well-off" as it's neighbors in W. Europe. It has, for example, been in a struggle with TB for a long time. It's TB incidence rate is well over the standard in W. Europe, with the rate approaching third-world levels in major population centers like Porto. I found the country wonderful when I visited, but it still exuded a "rough" image compared the the rest of region; dilapidated slums, homelessness and open drug-dealing were some of the things I saw during my stay.

In any case, there's nothing wrong with sending jobs to other countries.

 

[Adrian Nasti]

No. The Planar ZM will suffice

 

[javimm]

I'm not going to buy this anytime soon. My canadian 50 Summicron is more than enough for me. Cost me about 500 euros second hand like 6 years ago.

 

[Adrian Nasti]

The pricing doesn't make sense to me. Irrespective of how highly corrected and wonderful the new lens is, I am stunned that it costs more than the faster 50 Lux and 35 FLE Lux. It's akin to the 28 Elmarit ASPH costing twice the amount than the 28 Summicron ASPH.

 

[Livesteamer]

Perhaps we need to remember the first 50mm f1.2 Noctilux. After a while they learned to make it faster/better/cheaper. In a way this lens is a technology test platform from which they will learn and which will benefit us in the future. Joe

 

[Adrian Nasti]

It's a worrying trend. It implies that any future versions of the 50 Lux for example will cost more than the new 50 Cron.