Will you please delete that!

S

Skinny McGee

Guest
Soooo,

Sitting in front of my freinds booth at an artshow this weekend,, I spied this old man and this old woman coming down the isle... She was hold up an umbrella to shade from the sun... They just had an interesting look to them.. So I brought my M3 up to my eye and took a shot... They walk past me sitting there and then,
tap, tap, "you have to delete that. "

Pardon me? " I do not want my picture taken, you have to delete that." SO, I fire the shutter off again and said there you go it is gone... Then she walked off...

I guess the voodoo of having your photo taken is coming around again.( if it ever left) Want be long we'll be taking pictures of sticks and rocks and that all because everything else will be off limits.... :bang:
 
The trick is to try and snap one without the subject or subjects knowing. 🙂
 
A young teenager once posed for me onthe street when i used my rolleiflex. He ran then to 'check the image' and was terribly disappointed when looking down onto the groundglass:" But i'm not even on the picture!!"
He did not believe me that it was not digital.
 
I'm given advice...

I'm given advice...

Hello:

I'm given advice on improving my film based images in PS. It is often good advice. The assumption is that originals are digital.

I'm not a people shooter in general but try to get tacit permission from subjects by being very visible and obvious in intent.

People feel sorry for me when they realize its not (111b) digital-They only tell me to go digital when I use a 6x9.

yours
Frank
 
Skinny McGee said:
"I do not want my picture taken, you have to delete that."

I also received that kind of response not long ago, also at an outdoor public event. I was wandering the streets, looking for interesting things, people, and situations, and was pounced upon by a woman (an artist, no less) who informed me that she did not "allow" her picture to be taken, and that I would have to delete it.

You took a more hassle-free route, and I would not disagree with your methods, as it obviously worked.

However, I don't like to leave anyone with the concept in their punkin haids that they have any kind of right to demand that their photograph not be taken, or that they have the right to tell YOU what to do with your camera & photographs.

It is my observation that there is an increasing sense in this country (USA) that we are entitled to privacy when and as we demand it - no matter where we may be, no matter what we may be doing. And while I respect privacy rights (and I am a stickler about my own), appearing in public is not protected, and if you go out, you are liable to be photographed.

Now, I wonder what the lady would have said if you had pointed out the overhead video cameras dangling from the nearby traffic signals and light poles. Or the ATM machine cameras that photograph everything that passes by, every three seconds (not just when the machine is being used). Could she march up to them and demand that they delete all record of her passage?

Perhaps it is a subconscious response to the fact that we ARE the most surveilled nation in history - we are constantly being photographed everywhere we go, by private businesses as well as government agencies. Usually not for nefarious purposes, but still, constantly and in all ways, "Big Brother" is in fact watching - even if he's not paying attention at any given time. Maybe it is a knee-jerk reaction - we know we can't turn off the government and business cameras, so we demand that fellow humans give us at least the illusion of privacy.

In my case, I told the lady that under no circumstances was I going to delete her photograph, and I pointed out that she was in public and had no right to privacy, whether she 'allowed it' or not. It ended with me walking away and continuing my photography.

People photographed in public in the USA in general do own the rights to their images, but they do not have a right to privacy that follows them around like a bubble and protects them from observation when they don't wish it.

One must be careful of the circumstances - private property is generally a no-no when it comes to public photography if the property owner or manager forbids it. But outdoor events that are open to the public can hardly be considered anything but 'public' in nature, and hence, there is no right to privacy.

I consider it a mission to not let anyone who accosts me get away with the notion that they have any kind of 'right' to stop me taking their photo or demanding to know what use I will put it to, or what I'm doing thereabouts. If I am polite, I am also very firm in my refusal to comply or to give them any information.

I mean no disrespect, but I suspect that now the lady you dealt with is satisfied that she defended her 'right' not to be photographed - she'll do it again, and with the solid belief that she is in the right.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
To avoid conflict?
Bill, you gotta realize, that although i 100% agree with your argument and i'm sure many others do, not everybody is that upfront about his beliefs and not everybody is willing to get into confrontation (verbal or more serious) if there are other ways to get rid of the problem.
This does not necessarily relate to the physical appearance of someone🙂
 
Pherdinand said:
Originally Posted by Frank Granovski
The trick is to try and snap one without the subject or subjects knowing.
Mattocks = And why would that be?
To avoid conflict?
Bill, you gotta realize, that although i 100% agree with your argument and i'm sure many others do, not everybody is that upfront about his beliefs and not everybody is willing to get into confrontation (verbal or more serious) if there are other ways to get rid of the problem.
This does not necessarily relate to the physical appearance of someone🙂

I am not against clandestine photography. I engage in it from time to time. However, that (to me) means standing in the shadows, not hiding in them - and there is a difference. Sneaking around and trying to avoid being seen taking a photo, when detected, will surely arouse more 'conflict' than simply going about one's business of taking photographs.

I am not suggesting that everyone needs to fight every battle. But from my point of view, acting as if maybe we don't have the right to do what we do is asking for people to believe that we don't.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
FWIW, I don't do a lot of street candids but in general I try to ask for a subject's permission before taking a "posed" picture (for example, of a street musician). Rarely do the subjects object and I will usually offer them a copy of the print if they want it (they must contact me -- I give them my business card). No one has ever asked for a print.

IMO, being firm, friendly and polite goes a long way in these situations. However, it's impossible to completely avoid confrontation and we must be prepared to deal with it -- nicely, of course 😉
 
I agree Bill.... This is the first time I have run into this.. I was also in front of my friends booth and did not wan't to cause any trouble for him.. I even left in front of his booth to go out and take some more photos.... I guess her knee jerk reaction caused me to think quick to not cause a scene in front of Tonys tent... But I will post the picture of the Old B#*ch when I get them developed...

I have my photo taken in public alot with playing music and all.. I am flattered by this.. The fact that someone I don'tknow finds me interesting enough to take the time and the photo.... Each to there own I guess...

I like eyes and faces.. Alot of times I see pictures of the back of people most of them a great photos but to get that emotion of the face and the eyes in that split second before they ask you to delete it is great....
 
that's true and i also did not mean it in that way, Bill... just that, what FrankS wrote it does not mean that he suggests being sneaky. Standing in the shadow, snapping unnoticed shots has its advantages, avoiding the conflict being only one of those.
You can take shots of people on the street even upfront without making them realize you took a shot, you don't have to be sneaky.

Anyway, we deter a bit from the original subject i think. That was about the case when you are already in the confrontation, in which case i think it matters alot on the situation if you should use tricks or 'stand up for your rights'. With an elderly couple, i think i would feel uncomfortable to start to expplain my rights and their rights.
 
cbass said:
FWIW, I don't do a lot of street candids but in general I try to ask for a subject's permission before taking a "posed" picture (for example, of a street musician). Rarely do the subjects object and I will usually offer them a copy of the print if they want it (they must contact me -- I give them my business card). No one has ever asked for a print.

IMO, being firm, friendly and polite goes a long way in these situations. However, it's impossible to completely avoid confrontation and we must be prepared to deal with it -- nicely, of course 😉

If the photo you are trying to get is one in which you want eye contact or a certain type of pose, I would say that getting the subject's permission and even their cooperation is a very good idea.

Not all street photography lends itself to that. A cop arguing with someone that they just gave a parking ticket to will probably not appreciate being interrupted and asked if they could hold that pose while you click off a few photos, and even if they did, it would not be the same photo.

I dig your point about 'nicely' too. No point in being rude about it. Although that's fun sometimes.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Skinny McGee said:
I was also in front of my friends booth and did not wan't to cause any trouble for him..

I can certainly understand that! I would hate to be the cause of a friend getting hassled because of something I did, even if I was 'in the right'!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
I concur with Bill as well.
Although I would attempt the clandestine route more oft than not.

The "rules" as I understand them for Canucks are quite similar to the U.S.:
If you are in a public space and you are in "public" you forfeit your rights to "privacy" when it comes to photography (within reason of course - i.e. the guy that was recently arrested here in Toronto for "sneaking" up skirt photos of young girls using his camera phone - mind you, he was in a grocery store so he wasn't "in public" per se).

If you are on public land (i.e. sidewalk) you can photograph buildings etc. even if security guards come out and tell you that you cannot.

If you are on public land you CANNOT photograph INTO buildings (i.e. private property) without consent.

I prefer to stick to the public land and shoot as I see fit - most people look at the camera around my neck or in my bag (my M's) and figure I'm a goofy asian tourist anyway 😀

Dave
 
Pherdinand said:
Anyway, we deter a bit from the original subject i think. That was about the case when you are already in the confrontation, in which case i think it matters alot on the situation if you should use tricks or 'stand up for your rights'. With an elderly couple, i think i would feel uncomfortable to start to expplain my rights and their rights.

Well, I find that it need not be a long 'explanation' but I also don't pretend to comply - just a personal thing, I guess.

Never say never though; I might engage in tricks if I felt my life or well-being were in personal danger - like an old-time news photog pulling the film out of a 35mm cartridge to 'prove' he was ruining some image that a mob torpedo wanted gone - only it was a blank roll of film kept for just such purposes!

I usually just reply "No, thank you." when someone demands that I delete their image or show it to them or tell them what I intend to do with it or what I think I'm doing hanging around taking photos. No explanation, just a refusal.

I used to try to explain, but you're right - it doesn't do any good. So I just politely refuse to comply.

FWIW, I do the same thing when I leave Target or Walmart or CompUSA and the security guards want to see inside my bag or want to examine my register receipt. I just say "No, thank you!" and walk out of the store. I'll even dodge around them if they try to block my way. I smile, I make eye contact, I am friendly, but no, I am not going to comply with their demand.

I'm not showing them anything, because I did not steal anything and they have no legal right to search what is now my property. I have had a few of them yell after me as I left, "Sir! Get back here! Sir, I'm warning you!" But they never come after me. I'm waiting to be tackled in the parking lot - I will sue, and I will win a whole bunch of money. I've been doing this for years, though, and so far, nothing - it is just an empty threat. Most people don't realize they have the right to refuse to be searched.

I try to be polite - I really do. But I never back down unless I truly fear for my safety if I feel I am in the right.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
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