Wonderful news from Ilford for us film shooters!

[bmattock]

Juan, Kodak was introducing new B&W photo paper right up to the point where they stopped producing it. Kodak's philosophy over the decades has been to develop new products but not release them until older products have run their course (i.e., made them as much money as they could). They released Ektar when they did, I suspect, not because they believed film had a long future, but because they then pulled the plug on Kodacrome and hoped Ektar would somehow capture that market, as well as provide a hoped for alternative to digital.

IMHO, of course.

I agree. I also think that R&D is a long pipeline. Once the money is a sunk cost, it makes little sense NOT to introduce the film, even as the business goes down the tubes. The R&D money was invested and spent years ago, the production is the fruit of that labor. We're looking at the end of the pipeline where the product comes out, not the end where the money went in.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

How can Kodak think that? I doubt it, and I use both.

Ektar is great but can't be projected, and doesn't give the same color palette, or punch/contrast...

A very different thing is that after Kodachrome is gone, some people will use, in part, Ektar along other slide film... And who?

Again, that stable part of the market that won't miss the pleasures of best film.

Maybe we could make a poll on film... 5 years, 10, 25, a lifetime, forever?

Cheers,

Juan

 

[mawz]

The thing to consider about sales numbers is the differences between Kodak/Fuji and Ilford's market.

Ilford sells into amateur/professional B&W exclusively.

Kodak/Fuji sell disposable cameras (effectively killed off by cell phones), consumer colour (disappearing rapidly) and amateur/professional. They don't provide breakdowns on sales between those categories, but I'd strongly suspect overall sales declines are overwhelmingly in the first two categories as consumers have pretty much completely given up on film.

I'd strongly suspect that both Kodak and Fuji are seeing similar results in the same space as Ilford but their overall numbers

Note that Fuji just sold off its entire Canadian retail chain (Black's), to a Phone Company of all things.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Kodak said a couple of years ago that the largest percentage of film they sell now is large format film...which makes sense (graphics art, medical field).

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Kodak said a couple of years ago that the largest percentage of film they sell now is large format film...which makes sense (graphics art, medical field).

Pickett, how long do you think we'll have 35mm film available?

My bet was "forever".

Cheers,

Juan

 

[JohnTF]

Define 'a lot'. I make it USA, UK, Japan, Italy, Czech Republic, and Croatia. Is that a 'lot'?

Remaining manufacturers:

Kodak - USA
Fujifilm - Japan
Ilford - UK
Ferrania - Italy
FOMA - Czech Republic
Efke - Croatia

Unknown status:

Lucky - China
Shantou Era - China
Shanghai - China
Tasma - Russia
Svema - Belarus

Gone:
Polaroid - USA
Konica, Minolta, and Konica-Minolta - Japan
Mitsubishi - Japan
Forte - Hungary
Agfa - Germany
Slavich - Russia
Tura - Germany
...

This is just a list from memory - if I'm wrong, correct me. However, I do not count companies that 'produce' film made from old stock as 'manufacturers', as they do not create the film, and when it is gone, it is gone. I only count companies that actually create film in their own film manufacturing plants. I also do not accept "well, they still have a web page" as proof of life, nor "well my dealer says they still make it." I am of course aware of the various 'films' produced by Rollei (also out of business), ORWO, Adox, and etc - all films made for them by others, either from old remaining stocks, or Agfa-Gevaert Belgium-made films originally intended for other uses, such as traffic surveillance films. One can certainly take photos with such film, but I don't think they count as 'current manufacture' as they are more like bespoke production.

Yeah, I consider it a lot, those are some pretty good sized countries. I never used film from most of the ones you mention as discontinued.

It may well be more than many times in the past.

Neobrom was packaging film from Ukraine, and I do not know if the source there is still in production, -- and to be truthful, there were many years I used film from only one country. I think basically I have used film from Germany, UK, US, Japan and Czech. ;-)

Did I read that someone in Canada was making film, which is distributed from the US?
Is Bergerer making film in France, or just paper? They are the oldest.

The ORWO factory was producing under another name after ORWO stopped, my friend in Prague stocked up.

If I buy another freezer, I probably have enough to last me now.

Regards, John

 

[aniMal]

The only thing I know, is that film will be around for some years to come - and that one or two makers will probably survive for at least 30 more years. The sheer numbers of cameras - and collector/hobbyists - will make sure that there is a certain demand. Also moderns types of engineering should make it easier to set up a plant totally from scratch, if needed.

Meanwhile I have bought a freezer, great Mamiya 6X7 gear, 4X5 gear, and lots of frozen film. All for a fraction of the money I would have had to pay 5-10 years ago.

At least for me the decline of film globally, is a golden opportunity for me as an individual!

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Juan, digital is winning over lots of folks even here, with the cameras introduced this year, that have been die-hard film users. I think this trend will only accelerate. Many people clearly were only sticking with film because they couldn't afford a digital camera to use their legacy M and LTM lenses on. Now there is an alternative. So I really think the downward pressure on film will accelerate.

Since you asked me to prognosticate, I'll go out on a limb and say that film will be done in a practical sense in five to 10 years, more toward to lower end of that range. No guts no glory when prognosticating, I always say! 😉

 

[bmattock]

Did I read that someone in Canada was making film, which is distributed from the US?

No. There is a type of ADOX film produced in Canada, but they do not make it - they package it. It's traffic surveillance film, as I understand it.

Is Bergerer making film in France, or just paper? They are the oldest.

I do not know if Bergger makes their own film or not. I have read that it was rebranded Forte. No idea.

The ORWO factory was producing under another name after ORWO stopped, my friend in Prague stocked up.

ORWO does not manufacture film. The word 'producing' means someone else makes it for them.
[/QUOTE]

 

[DerekF]

Juan, digital is winning over lots of folks even here, with the cameras introduced this year, that have been die-hard film users. I think this trend will only accelerate. Many people clearly were only sticking with film because they couldn't afford a digital camera to use their legacy M and LTM lenses on. Now there is an alternative. So I really think the downward pressure on film will accelerate.

Since you asked me to prognosticate, I'll go out on a limb and say that film will be done in a practical sense in five to 10 years, more toward to lower end of that range. No guts no glory when prognosticating, I always say! 😉

Of course digital will continue to win over people, even die-hard film users. But that doesn't necessarily come at the expense of film. I've had my M8 for about a year now and still shoot mostly film. I just got my OM-2 back from a CLA. I'm saving up for a Coolscan 9000. Both mediums have a place in my hobby.

Film "done" in a practical sense in five to 10 years? What does that even mean? If, by "done", you mean that the major players (Kodak, Ilford, Fuji) will be out of the film business, who knows. As long as someone is still making decent film, I'll still be shooting it. And if the day comes when there is no film left, I'll move on. Ten years is a long time but I'd be willing to bet that there will still be fresh film available in 10 years. Either way, I'm not losing sleep over it because I have what I want today and am confident that my film cameras won't go hungry anytime soon.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Derek, how much are you willing to pay for a roll of film? That's the practical sense I'm talking about.

 

[dfoo]

What are they going to shoot movies on?

 

[Trius]

I would fall down dead if Kodak opened a film fab in Mexico. (I can hear all sorts of folks ringing up Kodak asking them to do so. "Please, manufacture your film in Mexico." "Why?" "Uh, well ... just do it please!" 😀 )

They just built a new facility in Rochester to consolidate all film manufacturing. Previously they had invested in both China and Brazil for film and paper, respectively. Why would they go offshore now?

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Yeah, China didn't work out so well for them, though.

 

[Nikon Bob]

What are they going to shoot movies on?

I am afraid that is going digital too http://www.bigscreen.com/about/help.php?id=36 . How quickly I don't know but even in my small town they are doing it now.

Bob

 

[Lilserenity]

Stop worrying people. Go out and use it while it lasts, however long that might be.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Juan, digital is winning over lots of folks even here, with the cameras introduced this year, that have been die-hard film users. I think this trend will only accelerate. Many people clearly were only sticking with film because they couldn't afford a digital camera to use their legacy M and LTM lenses on. Now there is an alternative. So I really think the downward pressure on film will accelerate.

Since you asked me to prognosticate, I'll go out on a limb and say that film will be done in a practical sense in five to 10 years, more toward to lower end of that range. No guts no glory when prognosticating, I always say! 😉

Among people using film, very very few use legacy M and LTM lenses.

I have professional digital equipment. Backs for Hasselblads are not too expensive if we're making money with them. Yet I use and prefer film. I have no interest in using any digital rangefinder. Those going that way, love film too. In ten years we will have great new emulsions. Ten years is little time...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[Keith]

Stop worrying people. Go out and use it while it lasts, however long that might be.

We need to worry a little I think ... no one wants their hobby shut down by circumstances beyond their control!

Should we all learn to crochet maybe? 😛

 

[sevo]

ORWO does not manufacture film. The word 'producing' means someone else makes it for them.

Nope, they make emulsions, cast, cut and package them (and even seem to make acetate and polyester film bases). The ORWO factory was bought out and renamed Filmotec more than ten years ago - but they still make cine and process films and market some of them under the ORWO brand, besides producing full-service (from R&D to packaging) for other companies.

There is no other ORWO film any more at least in Germany - some company appears to have held a licence to use the ORWO trademark on cheap CN film, but I haven't seen any of that for many years.

Sevo

 

[wilt]

Ah, Orwo, that name is a bit nostalgic to me; as a student, I used the very nice Orwo NP22 in my first 'serious' camera (a 1950's Hasselblad 500C) in the second half of the 1980's.

Nope, they make emulsions, cast, cut and package them (and even seem to make acetate and polyester film bases). The ORWO factory was bought out and renamed Filmotec more than ten years ago - but they still make cine and process films and market some of them under the ORWO brand, besides producing full-service (from R&D to packaging) for other companies.