Would You Buy SAME Quality Leica Gear NOT made in Germany!

[Bill58]

"German quality" is highly overrated these days (and has been for decades). If you ask a German they will, of course, tell you that quality started going downhill when Germany faced a worker shortage in the early 70's and had to import workers from other countries.

The truth is the younger generation doesn't have the same work ethic the older populace did.

 

[maddoc]

"German quality" is highly overrated these days (and has been for decades). If you ask a German they will, of course, tell you that quality started going downhill when Germany faced a worker shortage in the early 70's and had to import workers from other countries.

The truth is the younger generation doesn't have the same work ethic the older populace did.

... had to "IMPORT" workers ??? Germany invited workers from other countries but I don't know of anybody who got imported ...

About the German younger generation's work ethic I can agree ...

 

[Bill58]

"Imported" or "invited" or "recruited" means the same, unless one sits on the committee to revise Webster's.

 

[aizan]

what's the average age of a typical leica factory worker?

 

[PHOTOEIL]

what's the average age of a typical leica factory worker?

Most of them are woman, recruited from the lot that got unemployed when their textile factory went bankrupt some years ago. But these woman are very good fine workers!

 

[HenningW]

I am not critizing Leica management. But like other executive teams, their primary objective will be quarter-to-quarter increase of stockholder value. And in that context brand improvement.

With respect to stockholder value, that is now a moot point since Leica is essentially a privately held company again.

Other points: Dr. Kaufmann has said that Leica will announce a number of new lenses in the next year (24, actually). A number of these will naturally be R lenses for the new, larger than 24x36 format R10. But he also said that new M lenses will be forthcoming; both high end and at the lower price level. He did not say whether the new Summarits will be joined by other lower cost lenses or whether that will be it (ie, the Summarits are part of the 24). On the high end I expect will be some fixed focal length wides, and he as much as said a new Noctilux f/0.9 or so would be announced. The current Canadian made Noctilux (yes, it is still essentially made by Elcan for Leica, even though the labelling and final assembly allow it to be labelled 'made in Germany') has some problematic glass in it which is part of the reason for the recent price increase, and the new Noctilux will reduce that need, besides allowing for more up to date performance.

He showed some plans and 3d renderings of the new facilities in Wetzlar, including the new 3 storey Leica factory. The facility in Solms is to be abandoned.

So he has a number of long term plans, and he has the means to make them real. If his current enthusiasm continues is of course unknown, but it certainly seems real at present, and he is talking in terms of planning over the span of 20 years.

There was no mention of manufacturing in other countries, although global outsourcing, including increased cooperation with Elcan were specifically addressed. So the trend seems to be toward continuing with the 'made in Germany' label, but the total proportion of actual manufacturing in Germany is likely to decrease. Design, final assembly and testing will probably occur as much in Germany as ever.

Henning

 

[HenningW]

Comparable cameras? You mean by Linholf, Horseman, Silvestri, and Cambo? Interesting idea of "cheap." Where are you getting the idea that these companies are cutting corners?

Well, I did not know they bought the company. But unlike Leica or Contax (bought by Kyocera), they did not to continue to manufacture the same type of camera line. I don't think the tradition of 35mm SLR Alpas are being continued under the new Alpa so continuity of the old company to the new one seems cut. It does not seem to be the same company.

Alpa machining and manufacturing is not like Cambo, Horseman, or Linhof or even Sinar. I have no experience with Silvestri.

I have used a new Alpa, and I have a Roundshot, which is the company that does the CNC work for Alpa. 'Carved from a solid block' describes exactly how these things are manufactured, and while my Sinars and Cambos and previous Linhofs are well made, they are not in the same league. 'Cheap' is obviously not the correct term, but 'production efficiencies' have been applied to these camers which you do not see in Alpas.

The old Alpas were well made, but the new Alpas are in a different class. Roger has a point here.

Henning

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Don't know why this 10YO thread popped up with no recently added reply. So, I'm adding one

I like ELC M cameras, but I'm not, politely saying, overwhelmed with ELC lenses I'm, was able to afford.
For digital cameras, made in Japan is the best, from my practice. But Leica has nothing to do with Japan. From recent times since this thread was initiated and stopped, some of Leica Germany made cameras appears as much more worst than made in Japan I have. Or even worse comparing to China, Malaysia digital cameras I have. My 2YO MiG M-E needs new sensor within one year after purchase and it is the only camera I have where letters worn out. It is shame und shaizer, because I really libe das camera.

It looks like German labor is very expensive, yet it has nothing to do with quality, but social expenses.

 

[CameraQuest]

Don't know why this 10YO thread popped up with no recently added reply. So, I'm adding one

I like ELC M cameras, but I'm not, politely saying, overwhelmed with ELC lenses I'm, was able to afford.
For digital cameras, made in Japan is the best, from my practice. But Leica has nothing to do with Japan. From recent times since this thread was initiated and stopped, some of Leica Germany made cameras appears as much more worst than made in Japan I have. Or even worse comparing to China, Malaysia digital cameras I have. My 2YO MiG M-E needs new sensor within one year after purchase and it is the only camera I have were letters worn out. It is shame und shaizer, because I really libe das camera.

It looks like German labor is very expensive, yet it has nothing to do with quality, but social expenses.

someone voted in the poll.

With the newly formed Leica-Russian connection,
this poll may not remain purely academic,
we will see.

 

[Darthfeeble]

I agree

I agree

I clicked on the 'ofcause, as long as the quality is the same'-alternative. But on second thought I am not so sure. One of the reasons I bought a M8 - the only new Leica camera I have ever bought, was that it was still made in Europe. When and if the production is moved to some low cost country with far less employee protection and slave-low wages compared to Germany, don't reckon with me as a customer anymore. If we give in to this we will all end up with a bowl of rice per day as a salary.

A camera and what it costs? It is not that important.

One reason we have had such an unstable economy is that we are forever shipping stuff to another country for manufacturing and no longer have a work force able to contribute to our economy.

 

[vladimir]

Great deal of Leica stuff is made in Portugal and then finished in Germany where it is also sprinkled and blessed by the Leica German guru. Speaking from personal experience (M9 shutter, oil in 50 Summilux, 75 mm lens wobble) manufacturing in Japan might actually improve quality. Sensors and electronics are not made in Germany, got knows what else is not.

 

[dfdann]

Interesting reading the old comments Several thoughts come to mind. I am still using my M8 which gets bashed several times. Drive a Porsche so believe German engineering and quality is hard to beat. Still shooting film with M7 and several Leica lens. Also shoot film with Nikon FE2 and F100. Great cameras but in my humble opinion Nikon lens are not quite as good as Leica. On other hand I cannot justify cost of a new M10
Cheers, Dan

 

[Peter_S]

If the M8/M9 were made in Japan I would have bought them too. The percentage of in-house work may be higher than in Germany anyways. The best-made and solid cameras I use are Contax. I used them just as much as Leicas and I had no idea what CLA stands for until entering the Leica world. Now I have always two Leicas, because one tends to be in Wetzlar .
The T felt really well-made though.

 

[ruilourosa]

everything is made in Famalicão, in the North of Portugal, except some lenses and the digital sensors and eletronic shutters..., then off they go to be stamped: MADE IN GERMANY in germany, where they make the stamps that say MADE IN GERMANY in reverse...
high quality standards... the nicest factory!!

 

[x-ray]

Don't know why this 10YO thread popped up with no recently added reply. So, I'm adding one

I like ELC M cameras, but I'm not, politely saying, overwhelmed with ELC lenses I'm, was able to afford.
For digital cameras, made in Japan is the best, from my practice. But Leica has nothing to do with Japan. From recent times since this thread was initiated and stopped, some of Leica Germany made cameras appears as much more worst than made in Japan I have. Or even worse comparing to China, Malaysia digital cameras I have. My 2YO MiG M-E needs new sensor within one year after purchase and it is the only camera I have where letters worn out. It is shame und shaizer, because I really libe das camera.

It looks like German labor is very expensive, yet it has nothing to do with quality, but social expenses.

Totally agree. I've had more problems with Leica lenses and bodies in the past fifteen years than I have with the total of all of my Japanese equipment over fifty years. The one exception to this is the Rollei 3003 bodies I owned in the late 80's and early 90's. They were sadly poorly designed. Other German equipment, Rollei SL66's & TLR's & my Linhof equipment have been excellent.

Since buying 80's and later constructed Leica equipment I've had multiple repairs and issues.

 

[x-ray]

Interesting reading the old comments Several thoughts come to mind. I am still using my M8 which gets bashed several times. Drive a Porsche so believe German engineering and quality is hard to beat. Still shooting film with M7 and several Leica lens. Also shoot film with Nikon FE2 and F100. Great cameras but in my humble opinion Nikon lens are not quite as good as Leica. On other hand I cannot justify cost of a new M10
Cheers, Dan

I drove a Porsche I bought new for several years until losing it in a divorce, sadly. It was an excellent car with virtually no problems for the first five years. The only problem I had was a leak in the radiator and water pump.

I started to buy a new one last year but chickened out after looking into the intermediate shaft problems that plagued Porsches a couple of years ago. The problem arose from redesigning the bearing for the intermediate shaft and using a copy machine bearing that was sealed and couldn't be serviced. It resulted in many catastrophic engine failures at extremely high cost to replace the engine. In the end there was a class action lawsuit and Porsche replaced an undisclosed number of engines.

 

[John Lawrence]

I always thought that recent Leica gear was manufactured in either Germany or Portugal.

Having had to return a Leica item to Germany, I discovered that it was actually manufactured in India - and apparently Leica have been doing this for some time.

So I'm not sure that this poll is purely academic any more....

John

 

[presspass]

I have bought lenses and bodies made in Germany, but I also have a nice selection of older lenses made in Canada. That said, the Canadian lenses are every bit as well made as the German ones and I especially enjoy the Mandler-designed lenses that were made primarily in Canada. The black and white film images from these lenses are special. So if I had to give up some lenses, the made-in-Germany ones would go first and the Canadian ones would be the last to be sold.

 

[raid]

How about Leica made in Afghanistan? Would you buy it?

 

[creenus]

If the quality is there, why not? We adopted a dog from the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (that's what his papers say), so we are presently harboring an Afghani national.

Jeeves is his name, and he came from this shelter in Kabul:

http://www.nowzad.com/

It's a great organization. They rescue dogs, cats and donkeys: When residents "wear out" their donkeys, they abandon them on the street. Nowzad takes them in and cares for them.

Jeeves is part Saluki, has tuxedo-like markings (hence the name) and is a gentle, loving hound. He can run incredibly fast - Salukis are raced for sport in Russia, I believe.

How about Leica made in Afghanistan? Would you buy it?