Wow thanks for all the input, I will ramble a bit more to clarify some points then address your thoughts.
I'm looking to free up some capital here, that is really my primary requirement. Secondarily I want less stuff, with the culling of my film camera the darkroom stuff will be going too and that is a very large enlarger with associated trays chemicals and a big box of paper. I'm not looking to upgrade if I'm honest, the A7 does everything I want and need, just not quite in the way I'd like, I like my rangefinders so want that body style, the wife has a fuji X10, that is nice but I want a step up from that. I don't make money from photography, I don;t get that much time to do it even now, this is just a nice fun hobby, nothing very serious, I'm no longer chasing the latest tech, 16Mp is plenty for me, the 24 of the sony is more than I need, The low light performance of the sony is ample for me, the AF is plenty good enough most of the time.
Given your tastes in focal lengths and your preference for an RF-style body, you could do far worse than an X100(T or F, depending on budget) with the matching conversion lenses. You get a body that's a little smaller than an M3; 28mm-, 35mm-, and 50mm-equivalent fields of view; an excellent OVF/EVF, and all the major controls in the right place and working as a real camera should.
All in a package than can comfortably be shoved in your coat pockets and that wouldn't cost the Earth.
I borrowed and original X100 from a friend and I liked it, they are nice, I think I would miss not being able to swap lenses about. very occasionally I stuff an old 200mm canon on the sony, I like the flexibility to do that.
X100s seem to be expensive, a x100t would be £450-500, which compares to say a X-E2 and 23mmf2 price wise but lack the flexibility
All of these are in my past practice, too, though I went to A7 and RX1 from Fuji X (and GXR/M before that). Your rationale is sound, especially regarding preference for RF (and, I would add, manual controls for aperture and speed).
Unless you absolutely must be thrifty in changing gear, I wonder: Why not get a used XP2 (rather than XP1)? Think about the Long in the Tooth factor for digital bodies.
If I were to redo Fuji X, I’d certainly have another X100–the newest possible—as well as an interchangeable lens X body. (In my case, though, the interchanging of M lenses between the digital/film Ms and the A7ii Kolari—with AF, if I choose—makes the Fuji system a superfluous luxury....)
Good luck. Maybe someone here will trade gear with you. Fred Miranda is full of Sony-Fuji trade offers.
XP2s are in the £600 region, add a 23mm prime and I'm spending £900ish. Could I realise that from my M4 (good working order, slightly tatty) and the Elmar 50mm f2.8 which is very tidy? If so it could be an option, the XP1 looks very cheap in comparison is it that lesser a camera, I'm perfectly happy with my 7 year old sony functionally.
Mentioned cameras except M4 are cheap these days. I would also consider X100 series if you want something new, grass is greener as they say.
Honestly I'm looking for different, not necessarily newer or better.
The pro series and the e series are quite different ergonomically so I would handle them, if possible, before buying. Fuji X's are quite a good deal used so you could try different bodies and move them on without a massive loss. I have an X-pro1 as my main camera and it doesn't miss a beat. I found the x-e series a bit small; not small enough to put in your coat pocket, and cramped and clumsy in use...ymmv
very valid thought, I started with a Canon DSLR, an old 20D as I felt the XXXD series to be better specced for my budget, but I found the smaller plastic body less suited to my great big sausage fingered hands. Looking at some of my old images makes me think the crop sensor is no real issue compared to full frame, just me being a tart! My local to work LCE has a X-E2s in for £350 with the kit lens, that would probably be worth going to have a play with one lunch time next week.
i had m4 also and went for xe1. i think xpro optical vf will be useless fir manual focus of course and af is pretty slow on that one(its same as my xe1 and it can search a lot-i usually prepare and have to think forward so i prefocus dome point where action will happen after but thats not what people like in general).
so go for xe2 - price is roughly the same and better af, and better help for mf. and dont be scared from ceop sensor-i was also but its all fine-if you still miss shallow dof and your old lenaes - just grab one of those speed boosters and you will get native field of view and even one stop faster lens than it was.. so its a win win
Everything I see suggest the Pro OVF will be lousy for manual focus, I'm hoping to move to mostly maybe totally the native fuji lenses. I've found the natie sony lenses very good when I've used them, the fujis have an equally good rep from my reading.
Honestly, I would put in a little more $ and get the X-E3 used. They are cheap, but modern and up to date.
Will have a look, on MBP they cost less than I expected.
The X-pro3 is just a tiny bit larger on all 3 dimensions (WxHxD) than the M4, but if that works for you, I would say that the X-Pro3 is just about as close as perfection as you can get for a sub-$2000 RF-style digital body. Slap on a 23/2 and you're ready to hit the streets.
Here are the actual dimensions:
M4
138 x 77 x 33.5 mm
X-Pro3
141 x 83 x 46 mm
X-Pro3, not sure my pockets are that deep, I'm not sure they are XP2 deep, never mind XP3. Your thoughts give me confidence that I may get what I want from an Xpro though.
Have you considered an M9 with a replacement sensor? I'm not sure if you're trying to release cash or just swop out your existing kit for something else...they're reasonably priced now (sometimes less than £2000) and hopefully reliable into the future. It should tick most of your boxes.
Yep, considered it, followed the second hand prices (I reckon £1600 is achievable if I'm patient), and truly lusted after one, honestly it is the camera I want if I let my heart rule my head... but I can't justify sinking that kinda money into a body. Icould possibly sell the Sony the M4 and my darkroom gear to raise the funds, but I'm no longer freeing up any cash then.
still want one though!
A few years ago, I bought an XE-2s/27mm kit to complement rather than replace an M4-2 I've owned forever. The XE-2 kit was priced at a deep discount because of the upcoming release of the new model, so it was very attractive to me as a digital rangefinder-style camera at half the price of the X100. Indeed, it's been a great walk-around camera, but much more Yashica/Contax than Leica M. I owned and loved using a Yashica T4 for years. I think, if you choose the X-Pro 1 and its high-bred VF, you will have found the true digital G2 you're looking for at terrific price these days.
Yeah, I'm probably looking more for a digital G2 than a digital M, something the kids can use and get reasonable pics from too. I think X-Pro will be more what I want than the X-E. When I look at the X-E I bundle it in with the X100 as another possible, then get side tracked into Ricoh GRs and the like. There is a big price jump from Pro1 to 2, is the camera that much better?
I reckon the Pro1 or 2 would suit my big fat paws better than the X-E, the X-E is only marginally larger than the X10 which is too small and about the same as the X100 which I found as small as I'd want to go if I'm honest. The Pro 3 is too rich, is the Pro2 3x the camera the pro 1 is and how do they stack up against my A7? decisions decisions. I really need to find a pro 1 to play with!
