Leica LTM Xenon and IIIa for sale on ebay

[David Hughes]

I've no connection with the seller and know nothing of these items but they popped up when I was searching for something else and are interesting enough to pass on here:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leica-d-r-p-Ernst-Leitz-Wetzlar/283968741573?hash=item421ddb20c5%3Ag%3AvLYAAOSwphZfKWFI&LH_Auction=1#viTabs_0

The IIIa looks like 1937 vintage with the Xenon a couple of years younger. Don't be put off by the heading which is in Russian and says it is a rare WW2 camera.

Regards, David

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

It's the number of EXCLAMATION marks!!! that worry me...

 

[Dralowid]

Been looking for a Xenon for some years...but one I can afford just hasn't dropped into my lap...

 

[f.hayek]

The USSR was notorious for among other things, churning out Leica II and III fakes after the war.

Caveat emptor.

 

[David Murphy]

The camera is not a fake. Was the Summarit based on the Xenon?

 

[David Murphy]

At first glance the lens does not appear to be either a J-3 or a Summarit.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

The camera is not a fake. Was the Summarit based on the Xenon?

There is a small difference in the shape of some lenses in the 7-element formula between the Summarit and Xenon.
With the main difference of the Summarit glass having (better/any) coating, Glass types used are the same.

Xenon on the left, Summarit on the right.


This does by all appearances seem to be a legit 3-ring Xenon (and a legit Leica).

From what I recall there is some speculation concerning Leica having had all of these lenses made by Schneider in ..1936/38(?) and parcelling them out in small batches over the years.

 

[Dralowid]

From what I recall there is some speculation concerning Leica having had all of these lenses made by Schneider in ..1936/38(?) and parcelling them out in small batches over the years.

Was it not a Schneider patent? I think I remember that the export versions are marked Taylor & Hobson because of a legal tie up between T&H and Schneider in UK/US etc?

 

[David Hughes]

The USSR was notorious for among other things, churning out Leica II and III fakes after the war.

Caveat emptor.

It would probably be nearer the truth to say that a few people, and not the state, made fake II's but not after the war but when the auction sites on the internet opened up and the USSR went into free fall after its demise and people were desperate for money*.

And Japan made copies and so did Reid in Britain but I've never heard them abused for it as much as the USSR. I think politics comes into it a lot and the current reputation of some makers.

Regards, David


* They were supported by a lot of stupid and gullible buyers who should have known better.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Was it not a Schneider patent? I think I remember that the export versions are marked Taylor & Hobson because of a legal tie up between T&H and Schneider in UK/US etc?

Yes, the design was patented by TT&H, who licensed it to Schneider who in turn licensed it to Leitz. So Leitz had to mark their Xenons as TT&H for the UK/US market.
But the Summarit is definitely an in-house Leitz product.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

It would probably be nearer the truth to say that a few people, and not the state, made fake II's but not after the war but when the auction sites on the internet opened up and the USSR went into free fall after its demise and people were desperate for money*.

And Japan made copies and so did Reid in Britain but I've never heard them abused for it as much as the USSR. I think politics comes into it a lot and the current reputation of some makers.

Regards, David


* They were supported by a lot of stupid and gullible buyers who should have known better.

I'm pretty sure there are VERY few Leica III fakes out there. 😉

 

[Dr.Alex_Parshakov]

It would probably be nearer the truth to say that a few people, and not the state, made fake II's but not after the war but when the auction sites on the internet opened up and the USSR went into free fall after its demise and people were desperate for money*.

And Japan made copies and so did Reid in Britain but I've never heard them abused for it as much as the USSR. I think politics comes into it a lot and the current reputation of some makers.

Regards, David


* They were supported by a lot of stupid and gullible buyers who should have known better.

I agree with you a hundred percent 🙂

Best regards, Alex

 

[Dralowid]

I have seen fake Is, IIs and of course 250 Reporters, I have yet to see a III.

Fake early Is, Anastigmat and Elmax are around and very convincing.

When it comes to the Reporter I think someone in Poland was making them out of IIIs. There seem to be more reporters every year...

When does one stop calling these cameras fakes and start calling them replicas?

 

[valdas]

When does one stop calling these cameras fakes and start calling them replicas?

Replica is a different thing. It is made from scratch based on some original design without infringing intellectual rights. When you take a FED and write on it Leica - it’s FAKE.

 

[Erik van Straten]

The original patent was (and is) by TT&H. This implies also the first version of the Summilux 50mm f/1.4. That is the reason that Leitz stopped the production of that lens: they had to pay TT&H for every example made.

To avoid this, they introduced their own design, the Summilux 2, from number 1844001. Everybody who tried both versions knows wich one is the best.

Erik.

 

[David Hughes]

I have always assumed the fakes were a cottage industry since refurbishing and selling them on as honest FEDs and Zorkis would probably be easier and less risky. They could do it in the same way that a lot of firms used to buy up laptops in bulk strip them back and then test and remake as refurbished ones.They probably got the idea from the antique furniture trade...

Secondly, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of websites pointing out how to spot a fake but they still continue and auction sites seem to do nothing about even the blatant ones.

I've a lot on my smugmug site and the Leica bits and pieces get about 80 times more visitors than the Leica fakes part.


Regards, David

 

[David Hughes]

I agree with you a hundred percent 🙂

Best regards, Alex

Welcome aboard, David