Leica LTM Xenon and IIIa for sale on ebay

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
David Hughes

David Hughes

David Hughes
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The USSR was notorious for among other things, churning out Leica II and III fakes after the war.

Caveat emptor.
 
David Murphy said:
The camera is not a fake. Was the Summarit based on the Xenon?
Click to expand...

There is a small difference in the shape of some lenses in the 7-element formula between the Summarit and Xenon.
With the main difference of the Summarit glass having (better/any) coating, Glass types used are the same.

38627968840_8f13501752.jpg



xenon_and_summarit.png

Xenon on the left, Summarit on the right.


This does by all appearances seem to be a legit 3-ring Xenon (and a legit Leica).

From what I recall there is some speculation concerning Leica having had all of these lenses made by Schneider in ..1936/38(?) and parcelling them out in small batches over the years.
 
Mr_Flibble said:
From what I recall there is some speculation concerning Leica having had all of these lenses made by Schneider in ..1936/38(?) and parcelling them out in small batches over the years.
Click to expand...

Was it not a Schneider patent? I think I remember that the export versions are marked Taylor & Hobson because of a legal tie up between T&H and Schneider in UK/US etc?
 
f.hayek said:
The USSR was notorious for among other things, churning out Leica II and III fakes after the war.

Caveat emptor.
Click to expand...


It would probably be nearer the truth to say that a few people, and not the state, made fake II's but not after the war but when the auction sites on the internet opened up and the USSR went into free fall after its demise and people were desperate for money*.

And Japan made copies and so did Reid in Britain but I've never heard them abused for it as much as the USSR. I think politics comes into it a lot and the current reputation of some makers.

Regards, David


* They were supported by a lot of stupid and gullible buyers who should have known better.
 
Dralowid said:
Was it not a Schneider patent? I think I remember that the export versions are marked Taylor & Hobson because of a legal tie up between T&H and Schneider in UK/US etc?
Click to expand...

Yes, the design was patented by TT&H, who licensed it to Schneider who in turn licensed it to Leitz. So Leitz had to mark their Xenons as TT&H for the UK/US market.
But the Summarit is definitely an in-house Leitz product.
 
David Hughes said:
It would probably be nearer the truth to say that a few people, and not the state, made fake II's but not after the war but when the auction sites on the internet opened up and the USSR went into free fall after its demise and people were desperate for money*.

And Japan made copies and so did Reid in Britain but I've never heard them abused for it as much as the USSR. I think politics comes into it a lot and the current reputation of some makers.

Regards, David


* They were supported by a lot of stupid and gullible buyers who should have known better.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure there are VERY few Leica III fakes out there. ;)
 
David Hughes said:
It would probably be nearer the truth to say that a few people, and not the state, made fake II's but not after the war but when the auction sites on the internet opened up and the USSR went into free fall after its demise and people were desperate for money*.

And Japan made copies and so did Reid in Britain but I've never heard them abused for it as much as the USSR. I think politics comes into it a lot and the current reputation of some makers.

Regards, David


* They were supported by a lot of stupid and gullible buyers who should have known better.
Click to expand...

I agree with you a hundred percent :)

Best regards, Alex
 
I have seen fake Is, IIs and of course 250 Reporters, I have yet to see a III.

Fake early Is, Anastigmat and Elmax are around and very convincing.

When it comes to the Reporter I think someone in Poland was making them out of IIIs. There seem to be more reporters every year...

When does one stop calling these cameras fakes and start calling them replicas?
 
Dralowid said:
When does one stop calling these cameras fakes and start calling them replicas?
Click to expand...

Replica is a different thing. It is made from scratch based on some original design without infringing intellectual rights. When you take a FED and write on it Leica - it’s FAKE.
 
The original patent was (and is) by TT&H. This implies also the first version of the Summilux 50mm f/1.4. That is the reason that Leitz stopped the production of that lens: they had to pay TT&H for every example made.

To avoid this, they introduced their own design, the Summilux 2, from number 1844001. Everybody who tried both versions knows wich one is the best.

Erik.
 
I have always assumed the fakes were a cottage industry since refurbishing and selling them on as honest FEDs and Zorkis would probably be easier and less risky. They could do it in the same way that a lot of firms used to buy up laptops in bulk strip them back and then test and remake as refurbished ones.They probably got the idea from the antique furniture trade...

Secondly, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of websites pointing out how to spot a fake but they still continue and auction sites seem to do nothing about even the blatant ones.

I've a lot on my smugmug site and the Leica bits and pieces get about 80 times more visitors than the Leica fakes part.


Regards, David
 
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