tomtofa
Well-known
I'm thinking of unloading some gear and getting back to a viewfinder camera. An Xpro1 with the 35mm costs about the same as an M8 these days with a Color Skopar 35mm.
Obviously the Fuji has an ISO advantage, also an f/stop advantage. Has anyone with access to both cameras compared them to see how they compare in IQ at the ISO range usable in the M8, say up to 640 or so (or maybe 1250 for those with mad PP skillz. . .)?
Obviously the Fuji has an ISO advantage, also an f/stop advantage. Has anyone with access to both cameras compared them to see how they compare in IQ at the ISO range usable in the M8, say up to 640 or so (or maybe 1250 for those with mad PP skillz. . .)?
goffer
Well-known
No experience with either camera but I did find this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/areality4all/sets/72157629268771810/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/areality4all/sets/72157629268771810/
tomtofa
Well-known
Great find, thanks. Even has very large versions to compare. I'll spend some time on them after work -
noimmunity
scratch my niche
Hello. I did that comparison just shortly after getting the XP1 at the end of March. There was no proper RAW conversion available at the time, hence the comparison is, IMO, of limited value.
After two months' use of the XP1, I feel there is no question that the XP1 sensor is way ahead of the M8. However, at base ISOs where the M8 shines, other factors play a larger role. Do you require close focus (XP1) ? Autofocus (XP1)? Mechanical focus (M8)? How many MPs do you need? High ISO? OOC Jpegs? What kind of lens options? If you need a wide with corner-to-corner sharpness, the M8 is still your only choice, really. So far, for daytime landscape, I prefer the M8. Mine has been very reliable, and produces brilliant images.
If it came down to an either/or choice, I would choose the XP1 over the M8--without hesitation. Especially for the lenses you mention. The IQ and DOF of the marvellous Fuji 35/1.4 blows that CV 35/2.5 away.
After two months' use of the XP1, I feel there is no question that the XP1 sensor is way ahead of the M8. However, at base ISOs where the M8 shines, other factors play a larger role. Do you require close focus (XP1) ? Autofocus (XP1)? Mechanical focus (M8)? How many MPs do you need? High ISO? OOC Jpegs? What kind of lens options? If you need a wide with corner-to-corner sharpness, the M8 is still your only choice, really. So far, for daytime landscape, I prefer the M8. Mine has been very reliable, and produces brilliant images.
If it came down to an either/or choice, I would choose the XP1 over the M8--without hesitation. Especially for the lenses you mention. The IQ and DOF of the marvellous Fuji 35/1.4 blows that CV 35/2.5 away.
Machspeed
Member
I've sold my M8 and got the X-Pro.
Summary of my experience:
- The image quality for the X-Pro is way ahead of the M8, no contest here. If you value the IQ above all, the X-Pro is very good. It simply makes you forget about "full-frame", there's no more need for that.
- camera is lighter and this is a positive in my opinion
- viewfinder is smaller than M8 but you can get used to it, not really an issue
- the 35mm lens is a gem with a nice price
The x-pro has has 1 major problem right now (could be improved with future firmware versions but you never know..) when comparing it to the M8: it's laggy. What I mean is that in manual mode, OVF with no histogram, all parameters set for snappiest operation, it still makes you lose "the decisive moment". There's a 0.300ms-0.400ms delay from the moment you press the button and the moment you actually take the picture.
I don't know why this is, why this is happening. It shouldn't but it does.
Another problem is that EVF is not very good. If you don't use it than fine, no problem. But if we'll get the zoom lenses later on and those can only be used with the EVF, than the experience will not be stellar in the current configuration.
Summary of my experience:
- The image quality for the X-Pro is way ahead of the M8, no contest here. If you value the IQ above all, the X-Pro is very good. It simply makes you forget about "full-frame", there's no more need for that.
- camera is lighter and this is a positive in my opinion
- viewfinder is smaller than M8 but you can get used to it, not really an issue
- the 35mm lens is a gem with a nice price
The x-pro has has 1 major problem right now (could be improved with future firmware versions but you never know..) when comparing it to the M8: it's laggy. What I mean is that in manual mode, OVF with no histogram, all parameters set for snappiest operation, it still makes you lose "the decisive moment". There's a 0.300ms-0.400ms delay from the moment you press the button and the moment you actually take the picture.
I don't know why this is, why this is happening. It shouldn't but it does.
Another problem is that EVF is not very good. If you don't use it than fine, no problem. But if we'll get the zoom lenses later on and those can only be used with the EVF, than the experience will not be stellar in the current configuration.
tomtofa
Well-known
Jon, Machspeed, thanks. Those are all good points.
I do like landscapes, and the rendering from the M8 at low ISOs, but there are so many advantages to the XP1, and the 35mm is really brilliant.
But the lag issue is very real too, one of the main reasons I'm looking to get away from my foray into EVF cameras. I also wonder what's going on there, and whether it is something that can be addressed via firmware at some point.
I do like landscapes, and the rendering from the M8 at low ISOs, but there are so many advantages to the XP1, and the 35mm is really brilliant.
But the lag issue is very real too, one of the main reasons I'm looking to get away from my foray into EVF cameras. I also wonder what's going on there, and whether it is something that can be addressed via firmware at some point.
elmer3.5
Well-known
Very imprtnat that lag issue...to be considered, also read on a review that the AF is not very fast and misses a lot under poor light..
Machsped waht are your experience about AF?
Are you happy with it?
I don´t find the leica VF´s to be very inspiring and the VF of my G1 doesn´t bother me at all...i´d love to have on either camera the ZI´s VF, that´s the best i´ve used!
Machsped waht are your experience about AF?
Are you happy with it?
I don´t find the leica VF´s to be very inspiring and the VF of my G1 doesn´t bother me at all...i´d love to have on either camera the ZI´s VF, that´s the best i´ve used!
If you are sensitive to lag... which I'm not even bothered by in the Fuji, then you may want to stick to the M8.
eleskin
Well-known
Hated the viewfinder on the Fuji!
Hated the viewfinder on the Fuji!
I hate to say it but the Fuji viewfinder is now where near as good as the M8. I tried the manual focus and hated it! The rangefinder is much better, and the Nex 5n I have is a close second. The Fuji was very dissapointing. Stick to the M8, and if you can afford one, a used M9. A Nex 5n or Nex 7 would make the most economical sense as well. Forget the Fuji! Now if only the Fuji had the viewfinder of the NEX! AGGGGRRRGG!!!
Hated the viewfinder on the Fuji!
I hate to say it but the Fuji viewfinder is now where near as good as the M8. I tried the manual focus and hated it! The rangefinder is much better, and the Nex 5n I have is a close second. The Fuji was very dissapointing. Stick to the M8, and if you can afford one, a used M9. A Nex 5n or Nex 7 would make the most economical sense as well. Forget the Fuji! Now if only the Fuji had the viewfinder of the NEX! AGGGGRRRGG!!!
j.scooter
Veteran
Machspeed
Member
The AF is OK I guess. I will probably have to experiment more with it.
It's very precise when locked on.
The speed is nothing to write home about, I used to own a Panasonic G1 and if I remember correctly, it should be in the same league.
I do think that the lens is hunting too much sometimes and I try to find the pattern for this happening so I can avoid it. If there is a pattern, then I can work with it, right now I don't know what to say, I'm trying to stay in the manual mode where things are working in a coherent pattern (minus the lag issue) and use the AF-L button when needed (it works well actually).
My guess is that again, it's about software immaturity (and probably some user error). I've played with the NEX7 and the AF does seem more consistent and snappier. My style of shooting (zone focusing) didn't require a very good AF system but in the end this is an AF camera. I could live with a less than stellar AF for the IQ quality alone, as long as the lag issues are solved at some point.
I will probably not sell the camera down the line. The system is good, the lenses are very very good, I do need an APS-C sized senzor with good image quality. Hiring some good AF software engineers down the line is more likely to happen at Fuji than getting a X-Trans kind of senzor out of the gates in the 43 camp.. it's not like getting good CDAF working involves some ultra-secret tech.
I think I will buy a micro43 camera again (after a long pause) to have it around with me in the car and for AF work or something, but I don't really like the 4:3 format, the IQ and... the EVF. We can't have it all in one it seems and we must live with it.