Yashica Mat winding only part way?

[rev]

I've been shooting various manual focus lenses on the NEX and A7 for the last few years. I recently decided to have a go with medium format film for a specific project.

I borrowed a Fujica G690BL (Texas Leica), but it's so big and heavy that I can't see myself using it much. Pretty nice otherwise.

I went back to plan A - Yashica TLR. I bought a Yashica Mat from KEH - the original Mat, not the 124/124G, EM, etc. Just finished the first roll, didn't notice anything funky with the winding.

After removing the exposed roll and moving the spool, I played around with it a bit before loading another roll. Show the kids how it worked without risking a wasted frame etc. I noticed an odd behavior that I didn't notice before, and don't think it was exhibiting.

Empty camera, empty spool in the receiving position. Shut the back, wind to the first frame, press the release, click, so far, so good.

Advance to the second frame with the crank, and instead of advancing all the way, it made 1/4 of a turn and stopped. Frame count window still reads 1. Counter clockwise to the starting position, and press the shutter release. No shutter click, as expected, I can then do the full advance. Back to starting position, shutter clicks. Frame count reads 2.

Advance to the third frame with the crank, and instead of advancing all the way, it made 1/4 of a turn and stopped. Frame count window still reads 2. Counter clockwise to the starting position, and press the shutter release. No shutter click, as expected, I can then do the full advance. Back to starting position, shutter clicks. Frame count reads 3.

Repeat until you get to frame 7, which works normally, with only one advance crank and return to starting position needed.

8 and 9 both follow the broken pattern. 10, 11, 12 are normal.

Is this expected for dry firing, or is there some mechanical problem?

I could load another roll of Ektar 100, but I'd rather just send it back to KEH if it's borked rather than risk the roll.

Thoughts?

 

[Ronald M]

Mark Hamma near Marietta Ga or Atlanta.

He used to build them new in Japan.

 

[rev]

Mark Hamma near Marietta Ga or Atlanta.

He used to build them new in Japan.

I'll do that if needed, but for now this one is going back to KEH. Bummer too, I definitely dig using the TLR. I like working with the G690BL, but it is just too unwieldy for me to imagine using that often.

Mods: Accidentally posted this in 120 RFs - any chance you could move it to the TLR forum?

 

[Scrambler]

I've been shooting various manual focus lenses on the NEX and A7 for the last few years. I recently decided to have a go with medium format film for a specific project. I borrowed a Fujica G690BL (Texas Leica), but it's so big and heavy that I can't see myself using it much. Pretty nice otherwise. I went back to plan A - Yashica TLR. I bought a Yashica Mat from KEH - the original Mat, not the 124/124G, EM, etc. Just finished the first roll, didn't notice anything funky with the winding. After removing the exposed roll and moving the spool, I played around with it a bit before loading another roll. Show the kids how it worked without risking a wasted frame etc. I noticed an odd behavior that I didn't notice before, and don't think it was exhibiting. Empty camera, empty spool in the receiving position. Shut the back, wind to the first frame, press the release, click, so far, so good. Advance to the second frame with the crank, and instead of advancing all the way, it made 1/4 of a turn and stopped. Frame count window still reads 1. Counter clockwise to the starting position, and press the shutter release. No shutter click, as expected, I can then do the full advance. Back to starting position, shutter clicks. Frame count reads 2. Advance to the third frame with the crank, and instead of advancing all the way, it made 1/4 of a turn and stopped. Frame count window still reads 2. Counter clockwise to the starting position, and press the shutter release. No shutter click, as expected, I can then do the full advance. Back to starting position, shutter clicks. Frame count reads 3. Repeat until you get to frame 7, which works normally, with only one advance crank and return to starting position needed. 8 and 9 both follow the broken pattern. 10, 11, 12 are normal. Is this expected for dry firing, or is there some mechanical problem? I could load another roll of Ektar 100, but I'd rather just send it back to KEH if it's borked rather than risk the roll. Thoughts?

Load it with backing paper and try again.

I don't have a Mat but do have a nob wind Yashica and I believe the spacing mechanism is the same. It all depends on a friction balance which is affected by the drag of the film. The system works ok provided it's correctly balanced. I did take mine apart to fix a similar issue which responded to getting the balance of friction between the winder and the spacing disk correct.

 

[rev]

Load it with backing paper and try again.

I don't have a Mat but do have a nob wind Yashica and I believe the spacing mechanism is the same. It all depends on a friction balance which is affected by the drag of the film. The system works ok provided it's correctly balanced. I did take mine apart to fix a similar issue which responded to getting the balance of friction between the winder and the spacing disk correct.

Hrmm. I was hoping the problem was something like this, but didn't want to waste a roll. I don't have any backing paper - the 120 I've had developed was done by a local lab. Have a guess as to the weight of paper I could use instead?

I wouldn't be surprised if the issue was related to not having any film in it - I swear that the first roll went through without anything like this.

I guess I should just stick a roll in it and shoot it - if I lose it, I lose it.

 

[CMur12]

This may be true for the Yashica-Mat also, but I have read in the instructions for other TLRs not to advance the wind lever with an empty spool in the take-up position. You may risk damaging the counter mechanism by doing this.

It is okay to advance the wind lever with no film spool in the take-up position, but it probably won't advance the frame numbers. This is what you would do if you wanted to exercise the shutter.

- Murray

 

[Dan Daniel]

Look in the take-up spool area. On the left side is a thin silver fine-toothed gear. THIS is what tells the film metering system how far the film has advanced.

On an empty roll, the spool usually has a series of ridges and such. The metering gear jumps and gets dragged, etc. It isn't getting a smooth motion and things get ugly.

Take some masking tape or artist tape and wrap it around the spool in the place where the gear rides. Create a smooth surface for those teeth to roll on. Now see what happens when you do a 'test roll.'

 

[rev]

Load it with backing paper and try again.

I don't have a Mat but do have a nob wind Yashica and I believe the spacing mechanism is the same. It all depends on a friction balance which is affected by the drag of the film. The system works ok provided it's correctly balanced. I did take mine apart to fix a similar issue which responded to getting the balance of friction between the winder and the spacing disk correct.

Huh. For all the reading I've done, I've never come across that warning - thank you! I rolled an 10" strip of printer paper onto the take-up spool tried it again. It worked much better, with frames winding along as I'd expect it to.

I loaded film into it and will see how it goes! Still waiting to get my first roll of Ektar 100 back from the lab, can't wait to see how it turned out.

Thank you all for the help!

 

[rev]

That roll of Ektar 100 went through just fine - thanks again for the help!

 

[pauls52]

Glad that it is working for you. All that has been said about not winding on with an empty spool in the take up chamber is pretty much on the money. This link http://www.yashicatlr.com/BodiesTrim.html#crank is to a supplementary instruction found inside a Yashica 24 user manual (the reverse has a note about using 120 film).

In fact, I bought a Yashica 24 cheap because of this very issue and it turned out fine (there are plenty out there with other wind problems). What is not clear to me is whether any long term harm can be done.

 

[hanskerensky]

As Dan Daniel wrote before, you don't need a film, just add a piece of masking tape on an empty spool. Not only for the Yashica TLR's but also all others which work with a metering wheel.


Kit Version of Rolleiflex T (38) by Hans Kerensky, on Flickr