axiom
Non-Registered User
I sensed a German accent from him; but he did choose to initiate the "conversation" in English.
user237428934
User deletion pending
Come on. This was a joke, wasn't it? Austria is not a third world country. If you are standing on public ground he can't do anything. He can politely ask you to move on or call the police.
scottgee1
RF renegade
Ah, finally. The key word at the base of all of this: FEAR.
Those who want to manipulate others typically discover that if they can make their victims afraid, they are much easier to jerk around. Someone way up the tree is afraid that photographers/reporters might disrupt their plans so they decree that their activity must be interrupted. The order is passed down the chain of command and ends up being enforced by people who have no idea why they're literally ordering other citizens to "Stop!" doing something. The guards/police are afraid they'll lose their jobs so they obey orders. They may be given a rationale but it's never the truth, which is that the bosses are afraid reporters will generate something they can't control. They certainly don't care about our rights and if they can get away with pushing people around, they will.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
I had an experience with the Swiss embassy in Havana. The Swiss represent US interests since we have no formal diplomatic relations with Cuba. I stopped across the street with camera in hand and before I could raise the camera was immediately approached by Cuban military police and told to move on.
I have always believed that one's response should be dictated by the individual situation. This certainly applied here. I immediately replied "Si, no problemo" and started walking. There was a policeman ever 50 meters who radioed the next one about me. Each urged me to keep walking. I did so. Although the plaza in front of the embassy has a lot of history to photograph, I continue to skirt that block. I do not need any Cuban visa problems.
I believe as Fred suggested in an earlier post and took a confrontation to our local police chief where I prevailed.
However, I have adopted the same response I took in Cuba with a small town police chief. I did not want to risk 12-24 hours in jail to make a point. Instead, I just asked if I could leave town.
Peter Klein
Well-known
Here's a bit of perspective. I just spent two weeks in Israel. Now that's a country that has a lot more to fear from terrorists than the U.S.
I "street" photographed in Tel Aviv, Haifa, Jerusalem, Akko, Tzfat, all "real" places that people live and work in, not just tourist spots. In my entire time there, I was only asked not to photograph twice. Once was in the big modern shopping mall in Tel Aviv. The other was the city block where an important government official lived. In the latter case, the soldier guarding one end of the block overheard me tell my wife, "let's go around the next block," and he said, "Go ahead and walk through, just don't take pictures."
They take security very seriously. When you go into a restaurant, shopping center, theater, railway station, etc. you have to open your bags and let the guard look at the contents. Sometimes you get scanned with a metal or explosives detector wand. It's all very quick professional, and almost always polite.
Americans would probably not put up with that level of "intrusion." But you get the sense that the Israelis know what they're doing, and confine their practices to things that really work, as opposed to doing things for show, or "because we can." I saw none of the nonsense about not being able to photograph in a public place "because of terrorism." Not even in train stations.
We experienced the same speedy, professional security at Ben Gurion airport.
Disclaimer: I'm a light-skinned, Jewish American, and I didn't try to photograph foreign embassies, military installations, etc.
I "street" photographed in Tel Aviv, Haifa, Jerusalem, Akko, Tzfat, all "real" places that people live and work in, not just tourist spots. In my entire time there, I was only asked not to photograph twice. Once was in the big modern shopping mall in Tel Aviv. The other was the city block where an important government official lived. In the latter case, the soldier guarding one end of the block overheard me tell my wife, "let's go around the next block," and he said, "Go ahead and walk through, just don't take pictures."
They take security very seriously. When you go into a restaurant, shopping center, theater, railway station, etc. you have to open your bags and let the guard look at the contents. Sometimes you get scanned with a metal or explosives detector wand. It's all very quick professional, and almost always polite.
Americans would probably not put up with that level of "intrusion." But you get the sense that the Israelis know what they're doing, and confine their practices to things that really work, as opposed to doing things for show, or "because we can." I saw none of the nonsense about not being able to photograph in a public place "because of terrorism." Not even in train stations.
We experienced the same speedy, professional security at Ben Gurion airport.
Disclaimer: I'm a light-skinned, Jewish American, and I didn't try to photograph foreign embassies, military installations, etc.
Nick De Marco
Well-known
Following Peter's point, I have photographed widely in Burma - a military-police state.
I can honestly say I get far more officials interfering with me taking photos in London, not that it happens all the time or anything
I can honestly say I get far more officials interfering with me taking photos in London, not that it happens all the time or anything
damien.murphy
Damien
Fair play, Nick! Widespread idiocy in our modern society is unfortunately an insidious element, and am delighted to hear you standing your ground. In fact, it crossed my mind that in face of the continued harrassment by the security staff, that you did not consider calling the police yourself, and report being harrassed!
This sort of nonsense is too prevalent, and I wish there were more people willing to take a stand. Unfortunately, too many people seek nothing more than an easy life, even when their public rights are being trampled all over. We live in an increasingly unquestioning, unwilling age, where one is treated with suspicion in questioning authority of any kind, and I fear it will be part of our historical legacy when people look back in years to come.
Incident aside, I am glad to have come across your blog, and suspect I will enjoy checking in on it from time to time
This sort of nonsense is too prevalent, and I wish there were more people willing to take a stand. Unfortunately, too many people seek nothing more than an easy life, even when their public rights are being trampled all over. We live in an increasingly unquestioning, unwilling age, where one is treated with suspicion in questioning authority of any kind, and I fear it will be part of our historical legacy when people look back in years to come.
Incident aside, I am glad to have come across your blog, and suspect I will enjoy checking in on it from time to time
damien.murphy
Damien
For arguments sake, I would have thought the law on this was clear - people have a right to photograph in public places.
The argument that someone was 'only doing their job' and 'just following orders' doesn't wash with me either. History is quite clear what both of these traits have presided over, although in this case, it's a lot more insidious. I believe it's called the thin end of the wedge.
peterm1
Veteran
God we love this topic, don't we. Every time someone posts another I was stopped from taking a picture in the Mall story we have conniptions and kibbitz about it for weeks. Never mind I suppose that's the nature of us photographers. But overall well done for standing up to these guys.
KenR
Well-known
The only time that I have ever been told not to photograph while on a public street in the US, was in Boston near the Moakley Courthouse. The Courthouse is well regarded architecturally and photos of it have appeared in many books and magazines. So, I was rather surprised to have an armed guard tell me not to take pictures of the building. Of course, at the first opportunity, I went online to find that there are many hundreds of photos available, as well as a Google satellite view. But I wasn't allowed to take a photo. When and armed Federal officer tells me not to take a picture, I wasn't going to argue the point no matter how ridiculous it seems.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
"guilty as charged"
In the US interestingly there is no precedent case law regarding the basic right to photograph anyone / anywhere. Bert Krages Esq., author of the book "Legal handbook for photographers" told me that this right is so clearly established in US constitutional law that no authority would ever try to contest this right in court.
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
+1 on being guilty too,
Bob, that's an interesting quote...when they are questioned or pushed hard to show you certain "No Photographs" Policies in writing they move on to others things like Trespassing to bully you into submission...
This is an emotional issue for some folks who don't like their rights taken away...I for one will stand up for what I know to be the truth and if someone, anyone tries to tell me different I will stand my ground and never consider it wasted time...
Haigh
Gary Haigh
Great story. I just read it to my wife. It did have a humorous side. Thanks for posting it.
KenR
Well-known
Please ask Bert Krages to take his camera onto the George Washington Bridge and try to photograph one of the towers and ask him to stand next to the "no photography" sign when he does so. As in the UK, there are all kind of restrictions on photography in the US that make no sense in the era of Google.
Mcary
Well-known
ZeissFan
Veteran
Ironically, all of these rules are made by attorneys. It was good to see one stand up for his right to take a photo.
There are a number of places in town here that are marked "Private property," all over the sidewalks. So I simply go across the street and take my photos of their building. I'm sure it irks them, but it's getting ridiculous.
And from what I read in Amateur Photographer, the climate in the U.K. is much more draconian than in the U.S.
Luckily, we have an Art Institute and a number of universities nearby, and you often see young people out on the street alone or in groups taking photos. No one seems to give them a pause, except for the low lifes selling drugs.
There are a number of places in town here that are marked "Private property," all over the sidewalks. So I simply go across the street and take my photos of their building. I'm sure it irks them, but it's getting ridiculous.
And from what I read in Amateur Photographer, the climate in the U.K. is much more draconian than in the U.S.
Luckily, we have an Art Institute and a number of universities nearby, and you often see young people out on the street alone or in groups taking photos. No one seems to give them a pause, except for the low lifes selling drugs.
wgerrard
Veteran
Most embassy guards, of any country, will do that because Bad Guys have, in fact, been caught photographing embassies. Unfriendly countries have been known to purchase houses across the street from embassy entrances in order to track who comes and goes, photograph them, etc.
Remember, too, that embassy property is, technically, not within the jurisdiction of the host nation. If the embassy owns the sidewalk you were standing on, the guard was well within his rights.
If you were across the street from the embassy, the guard was just counting on intimidating you. If you had continued to photograph, he very well might have asked for your personal info, taken your picture, and passed that to the local police and intelligence.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Rest easy, now the Port Authority's Emergency Operations Center is across the river in Jersey City. It is in the building right next to the City of Jersey City's EOC.
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
Everyone needs to read Post #98 by Memphis...we could all use a good laugh about now...
atlcruiser
Part Yeti
In a large, local mall parking lot there was a double port-a-potty set up. It looked like there was to be some sort of fair or event in that parking lot later in the week as some equipment was stored there to be set up.
The mall was open and this was a part of an open parking lot.
I like outhouses J…I pulled in, parked and got my M6 out of the trunk.
Within seconds some guy in a pick up was telling me I had to stop taking photos. I ignored him. He became insistent. I asked who he was, did he have any ID, was he police? He told me I must leave the property…or else!
I told him he must leave the property or else! He would not identify himself or say why he thought he could tell me anything. I kept taking pictures. I started taking some of him…he hated that.
I go back to the car and he drives up next to me and tells me that I must leave right now or he will call the cops. I told him to call away….open parking lot, public, no signs, no gates…I am doing nothing wrong.
He sees me load the camera back in the bag in the trunk and yells at me to “STAY AWAY!” I went ahead and grabbed my tripod and the Mamiya 65af and made a show of messing with the lens and back. I took a roll of 120 and I really thought this guy was going to lose his mind. Every time he would shout I would calmly ask him why he thought he could tell me anything.
Sure it was a waste of time and I did bait the guy with the 645 and tripod but I will not be told what I can or cannot do by any private individual.
The mall was open and this was a part of an open parking lot.
I like outhouses J…I pulled in, parked and got my M6 out of the trunk.
Within seconds some guy in a pick up was telling me I had to stop taking photos. I ignored him. He became insistent. I asked who he was, did he have any ID, was he police? He told me I must leave the property…or else!
I told him he must leave the property or else! He would not identify himself or say why he thought he could tell me anything. I kept taking pictures. I started taking some of him…he hated that.
I go back to the car and he drives up next to me and tells me that I must leave right now or he will call the cops. I told him to call away….open parking lot, public, no signs, no gates…I am doing nothing wrong.
He sees me load the camera back in the bag in the trunk and yells at me to “STAY AWAY!” I went ahead and grabbed my tripod and the Mamiya 65af and made a show of messing with the lens and back. I took a roll of 120 and I really thought this guy was going to lose his mind. Every time he would shout I would calmly ask him why he thought he could tell me anything.
Sure it was a waste of time and I did bait the guy with the 645 and tripod but I will not be told what I can or cannot do by any private individual.