Hilmersen
Established
The M6 must be underpriced as the prices just keep increasing.....
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Overpriced: Contax T4 and the likes, the Olympus Mju-II (over 300 for a plastic P&S!) and the Lomo LC-A 120 (which is EUR 449 for a plastic camera with minimal settings).
Must underpriced and undervalued, I've said it for a decade, the Chinon Memotron CE-II.
Must underpriced and undervalued, I've said it for a decade, the Chinon Memotron CE-II.
Everything that was cool in the past is also over priced now. But people are paying because they are not making them anymore. It seems crazy to those us that used / bought them a long time ago and paid a lot less. The point and shoots people are disparaging are rare because they are dying and repairs are difficult to find. They are also unique and were not made for a long period of time. If you want one, you need to pay. Those who say you can buy a (insert big heavy camera) for the same price are missing the point. It is a unique point in history. People want them and they are not making them anymore. Big, heavy, no style, ubiquitous, cumbersome, etc are still available for good prices and some are excellent.
astrosecret
Recovering rollei snob
any nikon will be overpriced because they are rendered entirely unusable due to their reverse focus orientation 
ranger9
Well-known
If you want to see how people's nostalgia for their college days affects prices, scan eBay for asking prices on the Pentax K-1000 and compare them to the Pentax Spotmatic F. Or the Canon AE-1 to the Canon EF. Don't even get me started on the Contax T2, a bland point-and-shoot (I owned one "back in the day") bumped into the pricing stratosphere by YouTube film noobs with big subscriber bases.
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
If you’re referring to the squeak, that’s not the shutter but the mirror lift mechanism. Easily fixed.
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
Comparing a Nikkormat FT2 to a Pentax K1000, for the beginning photography student, the FT2 has these advantages:
- can actually turn the meter on and off
- meter reading visible in finder and on top plate
- depth of field preview
- self timer
- mirror lock-up
- shutter speed visible in finder
- max sync at 1/125 instead of 1/60
- membership in the legendary aperture ring twist ritual club
- can actually turn the meter on and off
- meter reading visible in finder and on top plate
- depth of field preview
- self timer
- mirror lock-up
- shutter speed visible in finder
- max sync at 1/125 instead of 1/60
- membership in the legendary aperture ring twist ritual club
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
Trying to send you a PM about this.
das
Well-known
I'm torn about Nikons as a cost-value proposition. On the one hand, their pro bodies are spectacular - once you use an F3, F4, or F5, which are all cheap today, it's hard to go back to any model that has a darker viewfinder, only a 1/1000 top speed, and less than real world frame coverage. However, while the pro bodies are great, I'm not in love with any manual focus Nikon lens. The AIS lenses were all just ok, took some legendary shots, were workhorses for pros for decades, etc., etc., but don't do it for me, especially when Contax and the later Leica R lenses are a league above. Imho, Nikon lenses didn't get really really good until the AFS primes. Unfortunately, the F6 has barely budged in price and is certainly somewhat overpriced.
Bingley
Veteran
Got it! We can talk offline...
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Agree 100%. People sniff at them but I find as cameras to actually use they are a pleasure, and the lenses produce superb results.
Bingley
Veteran
After trying out Minolta and Pentax cameras, I settled on Nikon for SLR photography. I've been pleased w/ the Nikkor lenses I've acquired for my F2, FM2n, and Nikkormat, especially the Micro-Nikkor 55mm lenses and the 85mm f2.0. But the lens that blew me away was the Voigtlander Ultron 40mm f2.0 SLIIs. I've only shot it w/ bw film, but it's a gem there: sharp, beautiful bokeh, and focuses as close as the Micro-Nikkors. The other Voigtlander lenses for Nikon F mount also look very interesting. The Ultron 40 is one of those lenses that could work well as a one-lens set up on one of the classic Nikon SLRs.
Mos6502
Well-known
I mean the shutter locking up problem, which it seems like 50% of them have developed at this point.
bluesun267
Well-known
I wholeheartedly agree. I tried and tried to find Nikon manual focus lenses I really loved. Closest I came was the 55/2.8 Micro Nikkor. A phenomenal lens for B/W but still less-than-exciting regarding color rendition. I keep my F3 in case I can't get an R body that works and have to Leitax (currently shooting an R8 with an SL and partially working R5 for back up). I don't think it will ever come to that though. Or I won't live long enough to see it.
A part of me feels there is no such thing as over/under-valued. Maybe if speaking in pure photographic terms or if counting features. Unfortunately we have to exist in a world where things like influencers, rarity, country of origin, and which way the wind is blowing count as much if not more than a camera's intrinsic value. Then there are qualities such as ergonomics and design which tend to go in a certain direction over time but are never an absolute for each/every individual user.
When it comes down to it (barring collectors items like 3 crowns Leicas and so forth) all of the used prices pretty much make sense. I mean actual sales, not "Buy it now" fantasies.
I may not like it though. My mind is subconsciously fixed at a dollar value that was normal for the time when I first thought about buying one. Gas, food, and rent all follow the same pattern. Anything higher than $400 for a 1 bedroom will always engender a pang of 'too expensive' for me.
For an M3 that would be about $500; an M6--$1000. And $500 for a really excellent Summicron rigid/DR or Version 4. $600-700 for a 35 Summicron V4.
The only consolation in seeing the value of film cameras stay stable or increase means there are new people shooting film. Imagine if film sales had continued the downward spiral of 2004-05 today there would be no Kodak, no Fuji, probably no Ilford; a Leica might still be $500 but a roll of 15 year old TMAX would be $100 or more.
astrosecret
Recovering rollei snob
i actually think there are even fewer people shooting film now than a few years ago, maybe a small bump due to the ‘pandemic’ but what you may be inferring from used prices is just an echo chamber of people being more online now than before, and inflation due to low rates, student loan deferrals, ppp scams etc
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
Exactly! I think this is normal thinking as people get older.
bluesun267
Well-known
This is not a very compelling list of reasons if your intention is to propose that interest in film is waning. Kodak already stated film sales were doubling every year from 2015-20. I would expect some sort of a dip in sales (not a bump) in the last 24 months due to the pandemic and supply issues, but this wouldn't be representative of an ongoing lack of/ or reduction in/ interest.
das
Well-known
That's a good point about the Zeiss/Voigtlander lenses in F mount. I have not used any of them, but I imagine they are probably better than most of the AIS equivalents, being designs from 20-30 years later.
Mos6502
Well-known
Kodak did better in 2021 than they did in 2020, which in turn was a better business year for them than 2019. I don't think a few hoarders can account for the increase.
Cameras may well be harder to find in the future. There are a surprisingly large number of simple or toy cameras on the market right now. The Vivitar Ultra Wide and Slim has been given yet another new lease on life, just for example. The Holga which was pronounced dead by its own company a few years ago is also somehow still produced (despite their claim they junked the tooling - although in retrospect, this was obviously a lie made to clear out the remaining inventory fast). The cost of entry into film is still relatively low on account of such things.
Cameras may well be harder to find in the future. There are a surprisingly large number of simple or toy cameras on the market right now. The Vivitar Ultra Wide and Slim has been given yet another new lease on life, just for example. The Holga which was pronounced dead by its own company a few years ago is also somehow still produced (despite their claim they junked the tooling - although in retrospect, this was obviously a lie made to clear out the remaining inventory fast). The cost of entry into film is still relatively low on account of such things.
David Murphy
Veteran
Nick I'm also 100% in agreement with you on this. The FT, TL, FT-QL, Pellix, etc. are superbly crafted cameras as is every FL lens that I have seen (and there are many). That with the fact that they can also accept the really vast number of FD compatible lenses makes them incredibly useful cameras.