Your pick for "good" M mount 50mm lens

Thank you Andy!

A point that brusby and I did not discuss, is the price of the paper. For the method that brusby used, quite a lot of test strips are needed to determine the exposure time. For split grade printing test strips are only needed for finding out the exposure time of the lightest and the darkest parts of the print. This systematic approach is not possible when a lot of burning and dodging is used. Then you'll have to make several complete prints so in the end you can choose wich one you like best. The test strips used for split grade printing can be quite small.

The price of high quality photographic paper is very high at this moment, EUR 120 for a box of 100 sheets Ilford MGFB 18cm x 24cm. The Adox MCC 110 was better and cheaper, but is not available at this moment.

Erik.

I am following Lina Bessanova on youtube - she is a Russian “analogue photography influencer” so to say. It was quite interesting video posted by her on split grade printing where she suggested using not 0/5, but, say 2 and 4 grades (or something other but not extreme values). I find that quite interesting, but I am yet to try. I don’t know what you think about that suggestion. Her video is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwD...uMCANqM_2bAvFW8vci7ZpfocsC1Bi6zfzgq3Ga55zAHvc
 
Thank you Andy!

A point that brusby and I did not discuss, is the price of the paper. For the method that brusby used, quite a lot of test strips are needed to determine the exposure time. For split grade printing test strips are only needed for finding out the exposure time of the lightest and the darkest parts of the print. This systematic approach is not possible when a lot of burning and dodging is used. Then you'll have to make several complete prints so in the end you can choose wich one you like best. The test strips used for split grade printing can be quite small.

The price of high quality photographic paper is very high at this moment, EUR 120 for a box of 100 sheets Ilford MGFB 18cm x 24cm. The Adox MCC 110 was better and cheaper, but is not available at this moment.

Erik.

I'm quite new to darkroom printing and haven't gotten the hang of split grade printing yet. But I've seen the results from others and was impressed.
 
I am following Lina Bessanova on youtube - she is a Russian “analogue photography influencer” so to say.

I found this video a bit confusing. Split grade printing is - in my opinion - much simpler. Just use filter 00 for determining the light tones and filter 5 for determining the dark tones. So two exposures.

The filters under the lens is clumsy. Use an enlarger with a filter drawer above the negative, right under the condensor.

The split grade system is based on the fact that the paper has two sensitive layers, a soft one and a hard one. So the best thing you can do is to use filter 00 for the soft layer to control the bright parts of the print and filter 5 for the hard layer to control the dark parts. With filter 00 you touch only the soft layer and with filter 5 you touch only the hard layer, so you can control the two parts of the gradationcurve separately. That is what it is all about.

Typically, the exposure times with filter 00 are long and those with filter 5 are short.

Erik.
 
split grade gelatine silver print (summar) leica III

Erik.

50335576432_c01cc5b13a_b.jpg
 
I found this video a bit confusing. Split grade printing is - in my opinion - much simpler. Just use filter 00 for determining the light tones and filter 5 for determining the dark tones. So two exposures.

The filters under the lens is clumsy. Use an enlarger with a filter drawer above the negative, right under the condensor.

The split grade system is based on the fact that the paper has two sensitive layers, a soft one and a hard one. So the best thing you can do is to use filter 00 for the soft layer to control the bright parts of the print and filter 5 for the hard layer to control the dark parts. With filter 00 you touch only the soft layer and with filter 5 you touch only the hard layer, so you can control the two parts of the gradationcurve separately. That is what it is all about.

Typically, the exposure times with filter 00 are long and those with filter 5 are short.

Erik.

I agree that filters under the lens are clumsy, I guess it can also degrade the image quality. But the interesting part was about using other filter values than 00 and 5. At lest in the video the result with a particular negative looked convicing (I think she used 2 and 4).
 
I agree that filters under the lens are clumsy, I guess it can also degrade the image quality. But the interesting part was about using other filter values than 00 and 5. At lest in the video the result with a particular negative looked convicing (I think she used 2 and 4).

I'm sorry, but I do not agree. The same effect is always obtainable with the filters 00 and 5.

Only the ratio of the exposure times with filters 00 and 5 matters. You may sometimes be able to achieve the same effect with intermediate filters, but that makes the process unnecessarily complicated. It is important to build up experience. Simplicity is important for this. That's why I only use filters 00 and 5. A systematic approach is important.

That is also the advice I got from a professional printer who has been working with this system for many years. The system is much older than many people think.

Often I make first a test with only filter 00 (one exposure). When I am satisfied, I make a test with both filters (two exposures). So I can see the effect of filter 5.

Erik.
 
I use the Zeiss ZM Planar 50/2 on my M4, and it is everything I want -- no flare at all, insanely sharp. I am also a fan of Canon RF lenses, which have to be the best value available. I have the Canon 50/1.8 and 50/1.4 (on different cameras), and both are terrific and inexpensive. One caveat, though -- I have never seen or heard of a Canon RF lens that didn't need a CLA, usually for haze. Just work it into the price, and it's still a bargain.
 
I haven't printed in a while, but I used to use a two step split grade system. I have a Zone IV enlarger with a cold head that lets you dial in the contrast you want on multi-grade papers. There was a blue tube and a green tube in the light-head, both on rheostats so that the intensity could be controlled. I would make one test exposure with just the hard filter of the edge of the negative and choose the first exposure where I got a true black. Then I would make another test exposure using the soft filter for the grays I wanted. I would wind up with a very good tonal range that way, assuming that the negative was properly exposed.

Then I used a Dektol bath to start my blacks, and would finish in Selectol-Soft to bring in the mid tones. But the split printing I was doing was, in effect, the same basic method that Erik is using. It helps explain the truly excellent tonal range you see in his photograhs.
 
Thank you, Benjamin! The developer I use is Eukobrom (Tetenal). I like it because it is sold in small bottles. The results are just fine. I use a small kitchen timer for the developing time: 3 minutes. The developer is on room temperature (20 degrees C).

Unfortunately the Adox MCC 110 paper is not available at the moment, now I use Ilford MGFB. I prefer Adox MCC 110 because the surface is smoother. A smooth surface is better for scanning.

Erik.
 
IMHO I dont think any leica lens is bad in BW, so theyre all good as the OP is looking for. The main difference is the preference to contrast and clarity of the focused image. Third generations lenses have higher contrast and more acuity which is suited for digital since the latitude of pp is easier than in film, which is why film prefers lower contrast lenses generally speaking.

However, that said It also depends on subject matter. Mrleica.com points out in portraiture it beneficial in using softer lenses with digital and conversely sharper lenses with film, which i believe makes senses since it takes the edge off digital.

Colour i prefer the saturation of ltm voigtlander lens.

Horses to courses though lol....just my 2c

I cant wait for people to try out and review the apo50 vm double aspherical. Im sure itll be a fantastic BW lens


PS. After all BW is leicas' bread and butter after all these years right? If there isnt a good bw lens from leica then it would be strange.
 
Thank you Andy!

A point that brusby and I did not discuss, is the price of the paper. For the method that brusby used, quite a lot of test strips are needed to determine the exposure time. For split grade printing test strips are only needed for finding out the exposure time of the lightest and the darkest parts of the print. This systematic approach is not possible when a lot of burning and dodging is used. Then you'll have to make several complete prints so in the end you can choose wich one you like best. The test strips used for split grade printing can be quite small.

Erik.

The point about needing a lot of test strips is just not correct in my personal experience. If that were true, it would make the method of dodging and burning I described too time consuming and too costly for professional use, when in fact, it is, or at least was when I was printing professionally in the 70's, the main method used by most commercial printers I was aware of.

I rarely had to make more than one test print. If you do printing on any type of regular basis, you'll be able to get very close to the perfect exposure your first try just from looking at the density of the negative. It's not too different from people on the street being able to judge camera exposures pretty accurately without a meter just from experience.

Now, I acknowledge this is not necessarily true if you're not very experienced at printing (nothing wrong with being inexperienced - we all started that way), but if that's the case, any printing option you choose is gonna be more time consuming and will consume more resources.


On the topic of V3 Summicron, there have been statements made about the focus being stiff and the focusing block poor. I have the opposite experience. I've got every version of the Summicron 50mm except the APO. Regarding smooth focusing and ease of use, the v3 is one of my favorites. My copy is silky smooth and among the easiest of my lenses to rotate, so I know there is nothing unique about that design which makes smooth, effortless operation impossible. Plus, I prefer lenses without a tab. That way I can better support the whole camera system with my left hand and just move 1 finger and thumb to focus. Finally it's among the smallest and lightest of the Summicrons.

Because that lens has been maligned (and I think wrongly) it is usually a good bargain these days. IMO, image quality is superb and it might be my choice if I were on a budget.

My other choice with an M4 would be a Dual Range Summicron. But it is getting a little harder to find a good, clean copy and they are pricier.

As much as I like the f2.8 Elmar, it's a little low contrast wide open. Still good for artistic stuff that way. But if you want sharp with better contrast you'd have to stop down to f4 to get roughly the same image quality as the Summicron wide open at f2. That 2 stop difference can be important in reducing camera shake, particularly with film where ISOs are generally less than modern digital. Also, you might prefer the bokeh available at f2.

p.s. I also love the Summitar, particularly coated versions - although non coated ones are great too, just a little lower in contrast than what I prefer.
 
The point about needing a lot of test strips is just not correct in my personal experience. If that were true, it would make the method of dodging and burning I described too time consuming and too costly for professional use, when in fact, it is, or at least was when I was printing professionally in the 70's, the main method used by most commercial printers, at least the ones I was aware of.

I rarely had to make more than one test print. If you do printing on any type of regular basis, you'll be able to get very close to the perfect exposure your first try just from looking at the density of the negative. It's not too different from people on the street being able to judge camera exposures pretty accurately without a meter just from experience.

Now, I acknowledge this is not necessarily true if you're not very experienced at printing (nothing wrong with being inexperienced - we all started that way), but if that's the case, any printing option you choose is gonna be more time consuming and will consume more resources.


On the topic of V3 Summicron, there have been statements made about the focus being stiff and the focusing block poor. I have the opposite experience. I've got every version of the Summicron 50mm except the APO. Regarding smooth focusing and ease of use, the v3 is one of my favorites. My copy is silky smooth and among the easiest of my lenses to rotate, so I know there is nothing unique about that design which makes smooth, effortless operation impossible. Plus, I prefer lenses without a tab. That way I can better support the whole camera system with my left hand and just move 1 fingers and thumb to focus. Finally it's among the smallest and lightest of the Summicrons.

Because that lens has been maligned (and I think wrongly) it is usually a good bargain these days. IMO, image quality is superb and it might be my choice if I were on a budget.

My other choice with an M4 would be a Dual Range Summicron. But it is getting a little harder to find a good, clean copy and they are pricier.

As much as I like the f2.8 Elmar, it's a little low contrast wide open. Still good for artistic stuff that way. But if you want sharp with better contrast you'd have to stop down to f4 to get roughly the same image quality as the Summicron wide open at f2. That 2 stop difference can be important in reducing camera shake, particularly with film where ISOs are generally less than modern digital. Also, you might prefer the bokeh available at f2.


The much newer Elmar-M 50mm f/2.8 would then be a better choice, very sharp, no distortion. And no tab. The Elmar-M 50mm f/2.8 however is not very "juicy". I like juicy lenses, like this one:


49748034432_e3c430417a_b.jpg



Erik.
 
My vote goes to the ZM Planar. I use it on digital but I bet it would be great on film. I think it does everything quite well plus the used prices are pretty low. Got mine for $450.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If you can find a clean copy of a postwar coated Leica 50mm Summitar f2 you will be very pleasantly blown away by the classic and sharp images it produces. I paid $200 for mine a few years ago but they are creeping up in price, but can still be found fir less than $500. Center sharpness is just as stellar as the cron. The trick is finding a clean copy.
 
I've only seen mention of the M-Hexanon 50/2 twice in all these posts, and wonder if the stories of it's focus issues are true, or if it's just a rare lens so not many owners of one here on RFF. Not asking for a friend, as I own one myself but have not had a chance to use it yet.

My first impressions are that it's a well built lens, good half-stop clicks on the ten blade aperture, and smooth focus with a retractable hood. I hope to get some use out of it soon.

PF
 
The best 50mm lens that I've ever used - and still use - is the rare (400) black paint version of the first Summilux 50mm f/1.4, in fact a kind of pre-series of the normal Summilux 50mm f/1.4 v1. The design of the lens and the manufacture of the glass of this pre-series in black paint is by Taylor, Taylor and Hobson. The "normal" Leitz-production of the lens (the silver one) is not as sharp at full aperture and the Summilux 50mm f/1.4 v2 is a disaster: a huge distortion and at full aperture not very sharp.


gelatine silver print (summilux 50mm f1.4 v1 black full aperture) leica mp

50402849457_4440d87fdd_b.jpg



48675933336_36eeb89544_b.jpg
 
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