Summicrom 40mm f2 VS. Voigtlander 40mm 1.2

[daniel@lebor.com]

Hello all.

I know that this topic has already been discussed, but I could use some fresh perspective.

I am finding my way back to the wonderful world of rangefinders, and am a little overwhelmed by all the beautiful glass out there.

I have decided to go with a 40mm and having a hard time deciding between the leica Summicrom 40mm f2 and the Voigtlander Nikton 40mm 1.2

Any thoughts one way or the other, I understand that both are great lenses. Is it worth the extra $ to go with the leica optics ?

I happen to do a lot of low light shooting so the 1.2 is also very appealing.

My friends of the RFF please help!!!

Any other lens suggestions are always welcome.

Thanks,

Daniel

 

[Tim Gray]

The CV 40mm is a 1.4 just to be clear.

I've heard great things about that lens. It's small, it's sharp, it's cheap. The only real complaint people have of it is that it can have some disagreeable bokeh sometimes.

I say go for the CV. It's got an extra stop that you can pretend is not there if you don't need it, its new with a warranty, and its cheaper. And sharp.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

Some years back I tested a 40mm Summicron against a number of other Leica lenses and it held its own quite well. I have also done the same with the 40mm Nokton, which is surprisingly sharp. However, I have never tested the 40mm Summicron and 40mm Nokton agaist each other. Also keep in mind it has been consistently reported the Minolta version of the Summicron (only the coatings are different) is a better performer.

I don't think you can go wrong either way and they are comparably priced.

 

[rlouzan]

Both are excellent lenses, but the Leitz summicron/Minolta Rokkor is better built.

 

[Rob-F]

As already stated, these are both excellent lenses. The Nokton is a much newer design, taking advantages of both newer optical glasses and design strategies that were not available in the time of the Summicron 40mm. I have both the the Nokton and the Minolta Rokkor. I used to have the Summicron. The problem with the latter is that it is hard to find the filters and lens hoods for them. They have an odd filter thread that does not accept readily available filters or hoods. So I got rid of mine.

All these lenses are fairly sharp, but the Nokton is sharper, being, as i said, of a newer design. And of course, the Nokton wins hands down, at f:1.4. The Summicron and the Rokkor are by no means bad lenses. They are "sharp enough" especially when stopped down to f/4 or smaller; and they have a pleasant "atmosphere" in lieu of the extra sharpness of the Nokton. So it is a matter of taste, and of whether you need f:1.4.

If it helps, I am shooting quite a lot with the Nokton these days. At the moment it is my default lens. If I don't see a reason to use something else, i use the Nokton. Whether its bokeh is bad is a matter of taste. It has not done anything to offend me yet. I do not often take artsy shots of a subject at close range, with out of focus backgrounds. If I did, I might have a different impression of the lens. But when I need f/1.4, my subject is generally at some distance, with not very much in the foreground or background to be affected by bokeh.

 

[Artorius]

I have/had both. I prefer the 40 'cron for film, and the CV for digital. Both are great lenses IMO. I have sold 3 Summicron 40's in the last year, and kept both versions of the CV(MC & SC). For some reason, I keep buying the 40 'cron. I think the next time I buy one, I'll keep it.

 

[gian]

I love the Rokkor M f2/40mm... so I assume that the summicron is at least as good! I haven't own a Voigtländer f1.4/40 yet, so I can't do a decision against or not...

Rokkor

 

[kknox]

Hi have used all three lens, I seam to use the CV 40sc most of the time. Here is a sample of the Voigtlander 40sc with Neopan 400 www.flickr.com/photos/28501471@N08/2824369230/

 

[Tim Gray]

great photos!

 

[gnarayan]

One of the regular posters here, Anupam Basu, did this comparison a while ago that I bookmarked right before I got my Bessa and 40/1.4

http://decisivemomentum.blogspot.com/2008/04/leica-40mm-summicron-c-vs-cv-40mm.html

Haven't used the summicron so can't compare but I like the Nokton a lot.

Cheers,
-Gautham

 

[Rob-F]

I suspect that the f/1.2 CV does not belong in the same discussion with the the others! It will be a very different shooting experience: Small, compact, and near-pocketable on the one hand; vs. large and heavy. I would worry about finder intrusion with the bulky and large CV lens. I have both the V. IV and the Pre-ASPH Summilux. I can't say I have a strong preference in terms of their imaging. Yes the Lux is better built.

 

[Hibbs]

kknox...isn't that the Mayberry garage where Goober Pyle worked?

~hibbs

 

[Vincenzo Maielli]

The old CV 40/1.4 is a very excellent lens, but the new version is less interesting, because the new glasses lack the lead in the formulation; therefore the global performances are weaker in the new version.
If the CV 40/1.4 is an earlier model, buy it. If are a new model, the Leica Summicron C 40 is better.
Ciao.
Vincenzo

 

[nzeeman]

The old CV 40/1.4 is a very excellent lens, but the new version is less interesting, because the new glasses lack the lead in the formulation; therefore the global performances are weaker in the new version.
If the CV 40/1.4 is an earlier model, buy it. If are a new model, the Leica Summicron C 40 is better.
Ciao.
Vincenzo

when did they change formulation, and how we know which version is nokton.
i was thinking about buying one but now im confused... i dont have money to gamble with that. 🙁

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

gian, those pictures are tremendous, esp. the first and last.

 

[Palaeoboy]

The old CV 40/1.4 is a very excellent lens, but the new version is less interesting, because the new glasses lack the lead in the formulation; therefore the global performances are weaker in the new version.
If the CV 40/1.4 is an earlier model, buy it. If are a new model, the Leica Summicron C 40 is better.
Ciao.
Vincenzo

Older with lead newer without? LOL Sorry but thats pure nonsense. The Nokton 40mm lens is a modern lens that only came out a few years ago. Its a modern lens with modern glasses. There was an internal change to address some focusing smoothness issues in the first batch but optically all 40mm f1.4s are the same unless they are either Multi or Single Coated versions.

At f2 the Nokton is the sharper lens with greater contrast at all apertures. The Summicron is better made and more compact but harder to get filters for. If you want the fastest 40 you can get then get the Nokton if you want to keep things compact then go for the Summicron. Fortunately they are both good lenses so you will be happy with either.

 

[Vincenzo Maielli]

In UE this is the reality, not "nonsense": the newer CV lenses are all "lead free" (from 2005 for the precision), due to restriction of UE in order to preserve the enviromental health. Now, the new CV "lead free" optical formulation are less interesting, in respect to the older series, in comparison to the correspondant new Leica M or Zeiss Ikon lenses "lead free".
Maybe, in Australia is different, i hope.
Ciao.
Vincenzo

 

[40oz]

Vicenzo, do you have any evidence the older lenses were not already "lead free"? I mean, it's not like the EU is the only place lead is not welcome.

 

[ferider]

Backing up Joel.

Also, I have compared Nokton to Summicron 40 and 35, side by side, and there is no noticable difference in OOF behavior ("bokeh"), f2 and up of course.

There was an older, mechanically different version of the Nokton that caused problems with some samples. This has been fixed in newer copies - therefore, I would always recommend the newer version.

Also, with the 4 Noktons that I had, it seemed to me that the S.C. Nokton is better built/QA'ed when compared to the multi-coated version. You are much more likely to find one copy to be softer than the other due to different collimation, than due to (IMO, non-existing) differences in glass formulas.

By design, the 40 Nokton is essentially a classic Summilux copy, slightly longer with .7m min. focus. Note that Summicron and Rokkor have .8m min. focus. For portraits these 10cm can make a difference.

Roland.

 

[rlouzan]

No cigar😀

The lens side cut, indicates that the 40mm Nokton is closer to the 1979 35mm Summicron V.4 + lens MC are becoming softer do to "lead free" as mentioned by Vincenzo.

Facts:
http://www.cameraquest.com/voigtlen.htm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/summicron/104232597/in/set-72057594070107293/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/summicron/104232632/in/set-72057594070107293/

Backing up Joel.

By design, the 40 Nokton is essentially a classic Summilux copy, slightly longer with .7m min. focus. Note that Summicron and Rokkor have .8m min. focus. For portraits these 10cm can make a difference.

Roland.