Leica LTM Leica Standard Conversion?

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
JohnTF

JohnTF

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It turns out the Leica Standard with poor leather has an older number than normal.

Numbers are hard to read, but only five of them, starting with 67.

On line source says this is a Model 1 from 1931, is this a factory conversion or just an early Standard? It has the "0" on the mount under the lens.

How would this affect value if at all and collectible status?

Just under the viewfinder, on the back, the leather is missing, and there looks to be a round plug in a small depression.

I find a hole in the pressure plate (visible on B), nothing behind the hole, another standard has the hole in another position with a screw, and a third has no hole in the pressure plate at all. Yeah, I ended up with three standards.

All have the usual plug in the middle of the back.

Thanks, probably an easy question for you guys. ;-)
 
IMHO (which I've only just learnt means 'in my humble opinion') I don't think that the fact that a camera like this has been converted affects value so long as you assume the value is based on what it is now.

Very low serial numbers can, however have a positive effect on value.

Illegible serial numbers can have a negative effect.

From what I understand, the condition of the covering (and the fact that it is non standard) on your camera will have the biggest effect on value.

Sounds like a I that has been standardised. Any pictures?
 
This was a common factory conversion, the 0 on the lens mount indicates that it has been standardised - probably with shims under the mount (be careful if you ever take it off).

The small plug was designed to allow an external focus checking tool to be fitted by a technician to confirm focus - this lasted up to around 1932 and is a hang-over from the non-interchangeable lens bodies. Some pressure plates are entirely round and can be rotated so that the hole in the plate does not coincide with the hole in the body (just to make sure there are no light leaks), some are round, but secured by two lugs and a "pip" on the body shell so they don't rotate.

Value is really what someone will pay for it. If it is definitely not vulcanite, it is just possibly one of the few bodies that were released with calf leather. That might increase value by a small amount, but will be mitigated by overall condition. If it really is calf leather, cameraleather do a very nice replacement in calf, but it will not have the patina of age.

I have a 5-digit model II that really could do with replacement vulcanite - I'm not going to bother until the last piece falls off, then I will consider the CRR vulcanite replacement vs cameraleather calf - the cost at CRR is probably 5x the leather, and will not improve operation one bit. I missed out on a 3-digit A to II conversion last year, with very average vulcanite, that went for a relative song in a Manchester dealer's evilbay auction. He had been asking £2,000 in the shop, but it sold for nearer £500 at auction (depressed market, or what?).

There may be a basic decision to make here - are you a fondler or a user?
 
john neal said:
This was a common factory conversion, the 0 on the lens mount indicates that it has been standardised - probably with shims under the mount (be careful if you ever take it off).

The small plug was designed to allow an external focus checking tool to be fitted by a technician to confirm focus - this lasted up to around 1932 and is a hang-over from the non-interchangeable lens bodies. Some pressure plates are entirely round and can be rotated so that the hole in the plate does not coincide with the hole in the body (just to make sure there are no light leaks), some are round, but secured by two lugs and a "pip" on the body shell so they don't rotate.

Value is really what someone will pay for it. If it is definitely not vulcanite, it is just possibly one of the few bodies that were released with calf leather. That might increase value by a small amount, but will be mitigated by overall condition. If it really is calf leather, cameraleather do a very nice replacement in calf, but it will not have the patina of age.

I have a 5-digit model II that really could do with replacement vulcanite - I'm not going to bother until the last piece falls off, then I will consider the CRR vulcanite replacement vs cameraleather calf - the cost at CRR is probably 5x the leather, and will not improve operation one bit. I missed out on a 3-digit A to II conversion last year, with very average vulcanite, that went for a relative song in a Manchester dealer's evilbay auction. He had been asking £2,000 in the shop, but it sold for nearer £500 at auction (depressed market, or what?).

There may be a basic decision to make here - are you a fondler or a user?
Click to expand...


Thanks so much for both of the thoughtful responses. My few user cameras have grown to a collection of sorts, and I can blame my friend Igor who helped push me over the edge on this one. It was not my fault it followed me home. ;-)

I was surprised that they kept the hole in the pressure plate, even in six digit Standards, they must have had a backlog of parts. I cannot see what they did with the screw holes from the Inf. lock mounted on the body, but the covering shows no signs, perhaps a few blanking screws?

The numbers are hard to read, but perhaps an artifact of my arms getting shorter syndrome, but I could make them all out. I may try to post a photo, but am headed out of town for a week.

Seems odd the converted standard has the worse condition covering, the paint on the camera shows less than expected wear, really just edge brassing, but the covering looks like leather to me, and is loose in sheets with perhaps 50% metal showing, so perhaps original condition applies less here. Perhaps it was recovered on a Monday in the 30's. You can see the pattern of the hand applied glue. ;-)

As to actual value, I am not as concerned as I might seem in the post, as I rarely sell at this time, but would not like to screw up something more rare than usable. If this plays out to be as you say, it might be reasonable to recover it with period appropriate material. Its appearance certainly played a roll in the price I paid, and I even appealed to lower it further, but the condition of the metal, lens, and the shutter led the owner to just shrug his shoulders.

As to fondling my cameras, we are getting a bit personal here? ;-)

I occasionally take out a standard or Model 1, loaded with XP2, and do prefer, if practical, that the cameras function as intended, and on the right occasion I look to see that uncoated lens glow in the prints. On the Soviet side of the collection, I generally just look at them, I think they were built by Lucas.

Truth is, I normally grab a modern RF, but the old timers take up little space in the case and look good on the seat of the MG.

If you get to Cleethorpes, you can have the best fish and chips and perhaps run in to my friend John, I think he is out polishing the prime meridian on some days. ;-) He has significant framed collections of cigarette cards, plus mining lamps, and transits. I am afraid to try and spell theodolite?

Sorry you missed your three digit, ebay is a bit like Vegas, but with the strong pound you might be looking in our direction, I see a RT fare of $175 offered from London/NY. ;-)

Regards, John
 
i just picked up a Leica that has a serial of 10358. i guess it should be a 1928 Black leica I. But it sure looks like a Chrome II to me. Must be a conversion.
Interesting...in a sad sorta way.
 
Here's an interesting one that I picked up last year: serial number 8989 converted to a IIIf.
 

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My Standard Leica had its viewfinder removed and replaced with a second accessory finder. I don't know about the effect of such a conversion on the value of the black Standard. The camera is incredibly compact and sleek looking, and the shutter sounds so smooth.
 

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Platon said:
Raid ! I Was only kidding. There was a Leica 1c with two accessory shoes Leica called "post camera" used by the german postal authorities with 24x27 neg size.
Click to expand...

Oooooooooooooh! :bang: It makes sense.
I wonder why my example has lettering in black on black while other shown example has lettering in white on black.
 
Vince Lupo said:
Here's an interesting one that I picked up last year: serial number 8989 converted to a IIIf.
Click to expand...

This is not a IIIf, but a IIIa syn. Originally it was a four digit Leica I, converted in the fifties to a IIIa syn. It is a quite common conversion. A four digit Leica I is nowadays much more valuable.
However I like the black conversions from the fifties, above all those without synch.

Erik.
 
Yes, you're probably right. I've seen them referred to as a IIIf White Dial, because they do have a lot of IIIf elements. Either way, it's a gorgeous setup.
 
Great Leica's !
Some sure fine conversions. lol
Anybody seen one of these before ?
i am in the middle of a deal for it, but really am not quite sure what to make of it.
Maybe an expensive makeover ?
It does not feel or sound like a fake.

3057945980_6cb63167c6.jpg

3057946410_b6e6df151d.jpg

3057945980
 
Erik van Straten said:
This is not a IIIf, but a IIIa syn. Originally it was a four digit Leica I, converted in the fifties to a IIIa syn. It is a quite common conversion. A four digit Leica I is nowadays much more valuable.
However I like the black conversions from the fifties, above all those without synch.
Erik.
Click to expand...

Erik, so that is it huh ? These cameras were more valuable as the original models than what they have been converted too ?
So there is no collectors value towards what was, and the now converted Leica ?
 
I traded a Canon VI-L in mintish condition towards my Leica Standard. The Leica is ultra cool.
 
john neal said:
Vince,

That's superb! Probably my ideal black Barnack. One day, perhaps....... ;)
Click to expand...

Funny thing was that KEH had it for the longest time, and it's about as beautiful as it can be. I had Gerry Smith at Kindermann Canada go over it, and it's weird because it's a short body with IIIf features. Plus, neither my SCNOO nor my MOOLY will work, and the body is too short for my black MOOLY-C (wouldn't that have looked awesome?!), so it is a bit of an oddball.
 
RF_newbie said:
Great Leica's !
Some sure fine conversions. lol
Anybody seen one of these before ?
i am in the middle of a deal for it, but really am not quite sure what to make of it.
Maybe an expensive makeover ?
It does not feel or sound like a fake.

3057945980_6cb63167c6.jpg

3057946410_b6e6df151d.jpg

3057945980
Click to expand...

I think that's the ultra rare M3 Standard Luftwaffe Heer IIc. :eek:
 
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