Italian student arrested while filming for fun

wgerrard said:
Section 44 is a provision in the UK's Terrorism Act of 2000. Note that's before 9/11; the act has antecedents rooted in the conflict in Northern Ireland.

Section 44 empowers the Home Secretary and the police to designate any area in the country as one in which they can stop and search anyone or any vehicle and seize articles which could be used in connection with terrorism. Police are not required to have a reasonable suspicion to stop and search someone.

I believe the police or not required to announce which regions have been designated under Section 44.

Section 41 of the Terrorism Act allowed the police to arrest and hold someone without charge for up to 48 hours on suspicions of being a terrorist. The Terrorism Act of 2006 extended the amount of time a person can be held without charge to 28 days.

In other words, UK police can put you in jail for 28 days without charging you with anything for the act of using a camera.

[EDIT: I disagree with these provisions, but it might help Americans to at least grasp the political environment in which they were passed to understand that the UK, especially London, has had much more direct experience with terror over the last 30-40 years than the U.S. These are the kind of laws democracies create when they are frightened.]
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Related in the sense of being a paranoid government: I teach at a school in The Netherlands, which runs a lot of exchange programs, including one with a UK school.

Current school year might be the last year with them, the British government is demanding that ALL adults the British high school children come into contact with in The Netherlands, will submit a 'certificate of good behaviour' to the British school board. This includes teachers, parents of the guest family and even relatives of these that come over for an afternoon visit while the student is staying with the host family.

In effect, this makes any exchange impossible. Parents simply sign their children up for different exchange programs, since they are not amused by being treated as possible criminals by a foreign government. The UK will be the only country in the EU that require these certificates, coming into effect summer 2010.
 
CLE-RF said:
Related in the sense of being a paranoid government: I teach at a school in The Netherlands, which runs a lot of exchange programs, including one with a UK school.

Current school year might be the last year with them, the British government is demanding that ALL adults the British high school children come into contact with in The Netherlands, will submit a 'certificate of good behaviour' to the British school board. This includes teachers, parents of the guest family and even relatives of these that come over for an afternoon visit while the student is staying with the host family.

In effect, this makes any exchange impossible. Parents simply sign their children up for different exchange programs, since they are not amused by being treated as possible criminals by a foreign government. The UK will be the only country in the EU that require these certificates, coming into effect summer 2010.
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That’s a completely different bit of daftness, that's the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act, paranoia; I think so … sorry I don’t know which is the silliest section of that one yet

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/91713-page.html

this is all getting a bit embarrassing for us Brits
 
Ignore the community support officers they have 0 authority and 0 powers of arrest, much like a cub scout, you don't even have to respond to them wait until the real police arrive.
 
Avotius said:
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A sad state of affairs indeed but I think we are partially to blame for letting things go on like this. If everything continues as it is now I think we are toast, and then we will really have deserved it.
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Its true irony that apparently its safer to photograph in communist China that democratic UK. I was bothered exactly once in China photographing. I was taking some pictures of flowers outside the central police station. A guard came along and politely asked me not to photograph towards the building. I complied and moved along.
 
Hmmmm????

Hmmmm????

Disaster_Area said:
wait... they're letting untrained volunteers polices the streets???? Most people that would volunteer for this are either looking for a power trip... or scared, fearful people that see terrorism everywhere.... exactly what you're looking for in a police force :p

Doesn't this seem strangely reminiscent of the Gestapo's volunteer enforcer/informant squads?
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I smell Basij, as in the street militia in Iran. Remember Neda!
 
I would say that this sickens me to the pit of my stomach. I will add it just seems to be mostly London that's gone mental over this whole photographer = terrorist thing with the PCSO rent-a-mob twits we now have. The rest of the UK seems to be on the whole fairly OK; there was a case in Chatham in Kent and Burgess Hill, West Sussex (bit close to home for me that one!!) again all started because of PCSOs who ... I can't say what I think about them because it's very rude!
 
What an a**hole that officer is. A prime example of lacking a few inches in the wrong places, so to say.

Anyway, on a general level the development in the UK when it comes to photography in public places really worries me. Maybe it is a case of few rotten apples spoiling the whole basket but certainly my interest in visiting UK in other than professional purposes has decreased over the last couple of years to the level of being practically nonexistent. I'd never thought such development would take place in europe and still even now it's hard to swallow.
 
It's really a poor sign if a country needs the help of such rather untrained police forces to protect the public policy (or their definition of public policy).
They should avoid teaching other countries values like democracy, freedom, personal rights, etc. Not credible at the moment.
 
Apparently the worst part was not even filmed, with the militia moron calls dad for help, and the real policemen apply force to arrest her.
I like to take pictures peacefully when I travel, and that's why I'm not in a prticular rush to tour certain countries where you have a great risk of being robbed of your gear.
That's also the reason why I will skip the UK untill they solve their little paranoia problem with cameras.
 
Hey you guys make us feel abandoned :p Don't go to London; York or Bath or Scotland would do just fine, there's hardly any police up in the highland :p
 
It's not just London, although there they have those tube bombings to fall back on to add weight to what they do.

I still remember those speakers they put out with the CCTV cameras in Middlesbrough, so that the operators could tell people what they were doing wrong as being particulary '1984'.

I have nothing against the Police, and I understand that they need to keep information to correlate and do 'detection' - but... these blokes and birds in uniform - we'll end up being suspicious of the Police rather than me now, where I would happily ask one for directions or if I were in trouble.
 
There was a report on the Australian 6.30 pm news broadcasts last night about heavy handed policing and excessive intrusion and questioning of law abiding tourists by wallopers in London. It included an interview with a professional photographer who has been repeatedly hassled.

No apology though - quite the contrary. They instead justified their actions by pointed to arrests made of some Algerians caught last year filming tube stations on their mobile phones.

Typical bureaucratic stuff where protecting the image of the organisation is all. One gets the impression that UK police cannot distinguish between Algerian nationals acting suspiciously while attempting to be surreptitious and mum, dad or grandad from Oz taking photos of the "old dart" with their digi cam to show the family.

Maybe the UK government will finally get the message when tourists start avoiding the place. I love London and was considering a trip but am now rethinking for the time being anyway. As I always have camera gear with me I am a certainty to be picked up.
 
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I agree that this was an abuse of power. However, I don't think she was as respectful to him as she could have been. She could have said right off the bat that she was an art student and working on a project and taken a respectful tone and might have held him off - she was sort of smirking and laughing. I'm not condoning what he did, but I think she could have averted this ( maybe ) because it looked his major reason was that she was being cocky and not telling him exactly what he was doing. I think a lot of us forget that police officers put themselves on the line in an increasingly dangerous world - the least we can do is treat them with respect to begin with. Terrorism is here to stay in many developed parts of the world and I'm willing to pay a small price for public safety as long as it not abused. Being questioned is ok if it means that it might avert a larger terrorist attack. Being abused, or power used wrongly, obviously not. I'm not white and I get targeted more, but if it's done respectfully, I don't have a problem with it.
 
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