sanmich
Veteran
That's exactly the problem: She had pissed the guy and he reacted completely non-professionally, harrassing her and abusing his power by fining her on a complete bogus issue of bike driving.
IMHO, the only way somthing could have been legitimately done to her would be:
1 ask her what she was doing, 2- ask her for identification, 3- arrest her if she cannot provide identification.
I do reckon that being unable to prove your identity is a problem, although in the movie, there is some confusion between ID and proof of beeing a student, which of course id created by the chewing gum genius, when he asks for an ID as a matter of fact after she says she's a student.
It's clear to me that the guy has no clue what he's doing, and is on a small power trip being really ennoyed by this foreign lady simply answering him "no" to his request of seing her footage, which I'm not even sure he has the right to ask.
Florian1234
it's just hide and seek
One could think there are cultural roots in these cases. It reminds me - as historian that I am - on the behaviour of British executive members during the reign over India.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Ain't that the truth!
Time for some major civil disobedience in this area IMO ... it makes you sick watching this report. It needs a couple of thousand photographers to turn up to some genuinely sensitive sites and start photographing ... but due to the fact that individuals are picked on much more easly than a crowd little would happen I suspect ... but the media may show some interest which wouldn't be a bad thing.
Ben B.
RFF newbie
As Benjamin Franklin said : "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Sad... Love London but...
Benjamin
_mark__
Well-known
!!!!!
It would be a real shame for anyone to miss-out London because of a very few minor incidents such as this, it really is a wonderful place.
This is, to a degree, journalistic sensationalism, far worse happens at the hand of the so called just police force.
It would be a real shame for anyone to miss-out London because of a very few minor incidents such as this, it really is a wonderful place.
This is, to a degree, journalistic sensationalism, far worse happens at the hand of the so called just police force.
user237428934
User deletion pending
Looked at the films. The bevaviour of the police makes me angry. Whoever says "this is OK and the price for a little more security" is just brainwashed.
Ben B.
RFF newbie
Is it? What if those incidents stayed untold? Whistle-blowing, even if too loud, remains necessary, right?
But don't worry, this won't stop me from going to London and enjoy it (soon I hope) but I know I WILL think about it every time I put my camera to my eye (or at least before the first 2 pints of Guiness
) And that will ruin some of the fun. I'm already too paranoid for my own good .andrewmore
Too many cameras....
PCSOs are NOT volunteers
PCSOs are NOT volunteers
PCSOs are paid and trained Police staff. Some (like my local PCSO team on the outer edge of London are quite good); others are clearly not.
There are civilian volunteers who help with 'behind the scenes' tasks and there are 'Special Constables' who are volunteer uniformed trained officers with full powers of arrest. Sometimes specialists will be sworn in as plain clothes Special Constables to assist on a one-off basis to assist with complex investigations. Special Constables have been part of UK policing for years and seem to be highly regarded.
One of Met chiefs has spoken to his people yet again about policing and photography - whether this has any effect remains to be seen
The City of London (which has had problems bewteeen police and photgraphers) is policed separately...
Regards
Andrew More
PCSOs are NOT volunteers
PCSOs are paid and trained Police staff. Some (like my local PCSO team on the outer edge of London are quite good); others are clearly not.
There are civilian volunteers who help with 'behind the scenes' tasks and there are 'Special Constables' who are volunteer uniformed trained officers with full powers of arrest. Sometimes specialists will be sworn in as plain clothes Special Constables to assist on a one-off basis to assist with complex investigations. Special Constables have been part of UK policing for years and seem to be highly regarded.
One of Met chiefs has spoken to his people yet again about policing and photography - whether this has any effect remains to be seen
The City of London (which has had problems bewteeen police and photgraphers) is policed separately...
Regards
Andrew More
Fujitsu
Well-known
dfoo
Well-known
Open your eyes man. The irony being that China is safer and freer place that London is these days! I photographed in Shanghai (and all over China actually) endless, and was never hassled like that.
woodleica
Established
I agree with you - the guy is an idiot. My point is that sometimes, especially if you're away from home, it is wise to be respectful to people around you, especially cops. There is no reason to provoke them. Cops sometimes don't feel respected for the work they do and laying their life on the line and while I think this guy was an idiot, I think there was some of that going on - why even provoke that? She could perhaps have walked away from it by being respectful ( and I stress perhaps ). It doesn't mean the guy is ok, just that you don't lose anything by being humble....
dfoo
Well-known
Other than your dignity.
DennisPT
Well-known
It must be part of the preparation for the 2012 London Olympics, did the officers wear a badge reads "Making it happen"?
http://www.london2012.com/visiting/safety-and-security/index.php
Don't worry, all is being done to welcome you from all over the world to a safe London! Book your ticket and hotel early!
http://www.london2012.com/visiting/safety-and-security/index.php
Don't worry, all is being done to welcome you from all over the world to a safe London! Book your ticket and hotel early!
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Pavel+
Established
You know, I hate to do an about face because this stuff is something I'm very upset about but perhaps it is a good thing. It could be viewed that way because sometimes it has to get worse before the tide turns and it can get better. The only small comforts I can find in these things is that it is almost monty python sureal, and it does still get reported - so hopefully it will bring some awareness that the pendulums swing in this direction has some unwarranted side effects and perhaps they will be addressed.
I hope they arrest a grandmother who is 98 for taking pictures of minors - and only after she faints find out that it was her grandchild.
Monty pythons walking police volunteer circus. Popcorn? It's better than migrain medicine. (I feel like a turncoat because I don't have it in me anymore to get mad)
I hope they arrest a grandmother who is 98 for taking pictures of minors - and only after she faints find out that it was her grandchild.
Monty pythons walking police volunteer circus. Popcorn? It's better than migrain medicine. (I feel like a turncoat because I don't have it in me anymore to get mad)
sanmich
Veteran
You meant respectful, right?
I don't see any reason to be humble in such a situation.
I don't think she was showing any disrespect. She was plainly stating that she doesn't think the guy has the right to have a look to what she has shot just because he's after his daily power trip, and that was the trigger. OTOH, HE was disrspectful by stating he doesn't beleive her. The more I think of it, the more the whole story makes me sick. It's really the kind of crap you expect only from third world, corrupted countries.
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
My proposal:
Go around "iconic" structures with a camera prop. (http://fictionalrelics.blogspot.com/2009/09/camera-prop.html)
If asked by a PC while actively 'photographing' what you are doing, say;
"I am miming......for fun"
PC: "I don't believe you. Do you have any identification that shows you are a mime?
PC to superior over radio: "I have someone here who is 'miming' suspiciously, send back up!"
You get the idea.
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
I found my first volunteer.
Pablito
coco frío
Ok, the amateur cop was a moron and clearly I share the outrage. However, she could easily have defused the situation if she had handled it differently. Doesn't make it right, but half-wit wanna-be cops like that are pretty easy to figure out.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
I cant get worked up about not being able to photograph a government building and engaging beat cops.
wgerrard
Veteran
Well, we don't actually know if the number of these incidents is increasing. In the UK, the laws that prompt these challenges have been on the books for several years. It's possible that the recent spate of anecdotal news reports reflects the increased publicity given the issue by organized photographers in that country. Or, they might actually be increasing, or remaining stable.
Only the police know for sure, and they aren't talking.
As for people who want photographers to put on a display of bravado when confronted by the police, consider how that is supposed to increase the chance that the next photographer to wander by will go unchallenged. Besides, getting the public on the side of photographers is far from a sure thing. A bunch of photographers getting arrested for resisting arrest or attempted assault isn't going to score a lot of PR points and will just obscure the real issue at hand.