Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
When I decided to abandon my M8 for shooting gallery openings and switch to a D700 there were the inevitable "Oh but those DSLR's and particularly the D700 are just so heavy!" comments!
Really?
I've just weighed my D700 with the 35mm lens I'll be using it with ... and also weighed the M8 with the 35mm lens that's been mounted on it for doing these gigs!
D700 .......... 1.24 kgs (or 2lbs 13oz)
M8 .............. 1.02 kgs (or 2lbs 4oz)
That's a difference of ~ wait for it (drum roll) ... .22 kgs (or 9 oz) Thats some weight advantage ... I now understand why all those DSLR shooters have abandoned their heavy cameras in favour of the lighter digital M!
My conclusion ... the M8/9 does have some advantages over a DSLR in certain areas but definitely not much in weight.
Really?
I've just weighed my D700 with the 35mm lens I'll be using it with ... and also weighed the M8 with the 35mm lens that's been mounted on it for doing these gigs!
D700 .......... 1.24 kgs (or 2lbs 13oz)
M8 .............. 1.02 kgs (or 2lbs 4oz)
That's a difference of ~ wait for it (drum roll) ... .22 kgs (or 9 oz) Thats some weight advantage ... I now understand why all those DSLR shooters have abandoned their heavy cameras in favour of the lighter digital M!
My conclusion ... the M8/9 does have some advantages over a DSLR in certain areas but definitely not much in weight.
That is because you are using a huge 35mm f1.2.
k.a
Well-known
the d700 is a bigger camera. i can get the m8 with a small lens to fit in my coat pocket. i can't fit the d700 in a pocket with any lens
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
But that's what it takes to put the Leica on anything near an even footing with the Nikon in low light ... the Nikon gets away easily with an f2 which I agree is a lighter lens and refelects in the overall weight of the gear.
My point is that what I have to carry to achieve my goal has very little weight disadvantage. I'd be interested to know the weight of the M8/M9 with an f1 Noctilux?
arnulf
Registered User
It's true, the D700 actually isn't that heavy, like the full size battle ships of D3s or D1 mark whatever-it-is-these-days. Still the difference between 1.02 and 1.24 is notable, if not huge.
But then again, I don't think the weight has ever been as big an argument for the M than that of size. That's where the huge difference is.
But then again, I don't think the weight has ever been as big an argument for the M than that of size. That's where the huge difference is.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Well you can always take a look at the spec sheets:
M8: 591 grams with battery
Noctilux: 630 grams
Sum: 1220 grams
I guess you'd need to put a 35/f1.4 on the D700 to get the same ballpark:
D700: 1095 grams with battery
35/1.4: 381 grams. Note that it's a manual focus lens.
Sum: 1476 grams
user237428934
User deletion pending
Oh and you forgot the additional battery for the M8 to get the same amount of photos and you forgot the additonal grip to get the same feeling and did you count the weight of the IR filter. Did you compare the weight of the straps? :bang:
You always said that you can't do those photos with an M8 so you have a D700. Why then take the heavy lens for the M8 as comparison?
When you compare the weight, you should compare the D700 with 1.4/35 and the M8 with eg. a CV 1.4/35.
You always said that you can't do those photos with an M8 so you have a D700. Why then take the heavy lens for the M8 as comparison?
When you compare the weight, you should compare the D700 with 1.4/35 and the M8 with eg. a CV 1.4/35.
jarski
Veteran
I think its those super duper AF/IS/etc.-zooms that bloat the SLR size and weight wise, compared to RF.
and how else could it be, since you cannot have either (AF or zoom) in rangefinder (excluding few exceptions such as Contax G system and WATE from Leica).
and how else could it be, since you cannot have either (AF or zoom) in rangefinder (excluding few exceptions such as Contax G system and WATE from Leica).
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Hello?????
What I'm comparing is what I'll be carrying this time when I walk in ... to what I was carrying last time, to achieve a similar or better result.
I accept the fact that the bare D700 body weighs a fair bit more than the bare Leica body but I'm comparing the weight of two workable low light rigs with whatever lenses they need to get the job done!
I hate that head banging smiley ... it gives me a headache just watching it!
Kozhe
Well-known
Now let´s compare size and weight of the M8+heliar 15mm with anything from the dslr world... Add a compact 35/40. That´s probably the main reason I went the Leica way instead of getting a D90, which is a more than enough good slr for my style, and like 2 or 3 times cheaper.
You forgot to mention the huge charger that you also need to consider. It is almost as big as the M8 itself.
user237428934
User deletion pending
Hello?????
What I'm comparing is what I'll be carrying this time when I walk in ... to what I was carrying last time, to achieve a similar or better result.
I accept the fact that the bare D700 body weighs a fair bit more than the bare Leica body but I'm comparing the weight of two workable low light rigs with whatever lenses they need to get the job done!
I hate that head banging smiley ... it gives me a headache just watching it!
When I understand you right than it's not a theoretical comparsion because you really used both setups to take the photos. Ok. Agreed.
I thought it's ok to give you some of the headache that I felt when reading this comparison because I really thought it's just another theoretical play.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Hello?????
What I'm comparing is what I'll be carrying this time when I walk in ... to what I was carrying last time, to achieve a similar or better result.
I accept the fact that the bare D700 body weighs a fair bit more than the bare Leica body but I'm comparing the weight of two workable low light rigs with whatever lenses they need to get the job done!
I hate that head banging smiley ... it gives me a headache just watching it!
You are a brave and foolish man for saying this on RFF but I get your point.
Bob
dfoo
Well-known
Keith, I've been trying to figure out what happened to my ultra accurate contrasty RF patch on the D700 and I can't help but notice that all those darn Nikon lenses either don't have an aperture ring at all, or its in the wrong place. Can you advise?
Ben Z
Veteran
Size and weight were my prime reasons for expanding my Leica system in the days of film. Although the weight of 2 bodies and 4-6 lenses was roughly equal to the equivalent SLR setup I had been using, the Leica setup fit in a bag half the size, and so the weight stayed closer to my body and thus felt much lighter on my shoulder. If you want to see what a few ounces and a little geometry really can mean, try walking 4-5 miles with your setup on your shoulder, without putting it down. Try sitting with it on your lap at a restaurant, or crowded into a bus seat for a few hours. As far as usability and image quality, I prefer my 5D over my M8, and now that I'm not travelling much, haven't touched the M8 very often. But if I go abroad again you can bet I'll take the M8.
chrishayton
Well-known
Off topic but Keith, which camera do you prefer? they are the same price in the uk now (m8 used) and im about to purchase one or the other (leaning heavily on the m8 though at the moment)
For say a 35 and 90 mm(equiv) prime lens kit what would you say is the best camera, nicest to use and enjoy shooting the most ( i know full well that the d700 destroys the m8 in low light)
For say a 35 and 90 mm(equiv) prime lens kit what would you say is the best camera, nicest to use and enjoy shooting the most ( i know full well that the d700 destroys the m8 in low light)
BillBingham2
Registered User
While I do not want you getting one, I wonder what the difference is with a 35/1.4 on each? Or perhaps a new 24/1.4 on each? That new Nikkor G looks like it has back problems all over it.
B2 (;->
B2 (;->
Richard Marks
Rexel
When I decided to abandon my M8 for shooting gallery openings and switch to a D700 there were the inevitable "Oh but those DSLR's and particularly the D700 are just so heavy!" comments!
Really?
I've just weighed my D700 with the 35mm lens I'll be using it with ... and also weighed the M8 with the 35mm lens that's been mounted on it for doing these gigs!
D700 .......... 1.24 kgs (or 2lbs 13oz)
M8 .............. 1.02 kgs (or 2lbs 4oz)
That's a difference
of ~ wait for it (drum roll) ... .22 kgs (or 9 oz) Thats some weight
advantage ... I now understand why all those DSLR shooters have abandoned their heavy cameras in favour of the lighter digital M!
My conclusion ... the M8/9 does have some advantages over a DSLR in certain areas but definitely not much in weight.
But Keith you compare same focal length but there is a crop factor. To get 35 f2 equivalence on the m you would need 24mm f2. The nearest would be 24 1.4 amazing but not light I guess!
I think the real issue is weight of whole kit
try a D700 with 14-24,24-70 and 70-200. This is the general pro pack. It's seriously heavy. But then you get a hell of a lot for the pain! Particularly the 14-24 I don't think has any serious competition in full frame format.
I am very conscious of weight at the moment having had a slipped disc in my neck fixed about 5 weeks ago. My 70-200 went 6 days post op!
Also now using Thinktank carrying gear. Simply brilliant! Weight distribution and very comfortable.
Sure the digital m is a tad lighter but it is not exactly a featherweight. Also the cost of an M9 makes it particularly heavy to wear or repair and no weather protection to boot!
Best wishes
Richard
Vern Dewit
Newbie
If you really think that using a FF DSLR is lighter and quicker and better than an M8 than you are entitled to that opinion -no need to justify it to us! I know how much lighter my M8.2 kit is than my FF systems ever were and also how much more I enjoy using it. We all have different needs / wants / measuring sticks.