Can Leica M Film Body be adapted to Digital?

[johannielscom]

We had a thread here some time ago, that one finally looked really promising. Capable and competent people involved.

Haven't heard a word on that project in months.

Must have went the way of the dinosaur. Or the dodo, whichever you prefer.

 

[David Hegar]

You mean...reality killed the idea?

We had a thread here some time ago, that one finally looked really promising. Capable and competent people involved.

Haven't heard a word on that project in months.

Must have went the way of the dinosaur. Or the dodo, whichever you prefer.

 

[DNG]

The problem with finding a way to bring old (= film) cameras into the digital era in this way is that the companies that could do it DON'T WANT TO. 🙁 If they produced a slim digital sensor - FX size with 15+MPixels would be quite feasible - with the battery/CPU etc in the position that the cartridge would be so that it fitted into a 35mm camera then we'd all be using our Leicas, FEDs, and even (dare I say on a RF forum) our Nikkomats and Canon A1s instead of BUYING NEW CAMERAS. :dance:

I had a friend at college who earned a crust working in a Singer shop. They used to offer a £50 trade-in on your old singer if you bought a nice new one. The reason for this generous offer was because the new ones were DESIGNED TO BREAK after 5 years. 😱 His task was to take the old indestructible manual singers out the back and sledge hammer them into submission.:bang:

I agree, and I've heard a sim,ilar story about old Singer sewing machines.

My grandmother had a 1920's Singer...It was still used in the 1970's!, Seem like we may never see cameras made to last T H A T long. Not sure on the Leica's M6/M7, and the M8/M9... electronics can't last that long. maybe a new circuit board every 10 years on these? M1-M5 are till going strong.. A good thing. My M5 should last another 20 years (I hope, with another CLA in a few more years)

 

[rxmd]

The problem with finding a way to bring old (= film) cameras into the digital era in this way is that the companies that could do it DON'T WANT TO.

Well, it's quite a stretch to say it would be "feasible" to fit a sensor plus electronics into a space designed for 125 µm worth of film thickness, or a battery, CPU, card reader plus electronics into the size of a 35mm roll.

Hybrid solutions for 35mm cameras were on the market, but they somehow didn't fly off the shelves and were cancelled. Maybe this is one of the things that more people like to talk about than would actually buy it.

 

[FrankS]

A slightly thicker back and a winder sized unit on the bottom, and it is doable. I'd want one for my M2. Best of both worlds.

 

[rxmd]

A slightly thicker back and a winder sized unit on the bottom, and it is doable. I'd want one for my M2.

Yes, plus some permanent modification to your M2 to fit the thicker back.

Just buy an M8, it will be cheaper, too.

 

[FrankS]

Yes, plus some permanent modification to your M2 to fit the thicker back.

Just buy an M8, it will be cheaper, too.

I see a replacement and replaceable back, not a permanent modification to the camera.

 

[johannielscom]

How about dust particles off the shutter cloth, landing on the sensor? Pretty sure Leica considered using a cloth shutter to keep the M8 more like the film M's, but they resorted to a metal shutter.

Digital version of a film M, it's never gonna happen.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

... If one was to remove the film door from an M body and incorporate some type of latching mechanism we might be able to accomplish the undreamable...

What do you think?

This concept has been kicked around for years.

I'm thinking - do you really think the folks at Leica haven't thought of this? And wouldn't you think a digital "insert" or replacement back would be hugely successful for them?

I mean no disrespect, but your question is presented as if this is an original idea.

 

[Journeyman]

So you want to put something that is battery dependant, has lower resolution and dynamic range into a film camera?

 

[Traut]

This concept has been kicked around for years.

I'm thinking - do you really think the folks at Leica haven't thought of this? And wouldn't you think a digital "insert" or replacement back would be hugely successful for them?

I mean no disrespect, but your question is presented as if this is an original idea.

I take no umbrage. The idea is far from original. However the original post was based on the relative physical size and concept of the NEX body. I can envision a removable back similar to the digi MF backs.

I hear what everyone is saying yet the thin offset to the sensor seems to hold hope.

And yes I think Leica has thought of it but they have been two steps late to the dance for years. Yes, I would like the option to use film and digital in the same body.

I remember Leica saying a digital Leica RF was not going to happen so who knows what the future holds.

 

[swoop]

Anything can be done if you throw enough money at it. Maybe.

I think if Leica could stuff digital into a body the size of an MP or M7. They would have done so. Instead of making the M8 and M9 chunkier. But the digital Leica's are fatter for a reason. Mostly to incorporate the automatic shutter. And because they are fatter they have the smaller viewfinder magnifications. I prefer the feel and viewfinders of the film M bodies. So here's to hoping the M10 retakes the original form factor.

With that thinking aside. Maybe a digital sensor and guts could be stuffed into a body the size of a film M. With cameras and processors getting smaller and smaller. But I very much doubt there will ever be a replaceable back for current film M bodies. Unless that guy from Oakley who started RED decides to use the other half of his retirement money to build such a thing.

 

[swoop]

And yes I think Leica has thought of it but they have been two steps late to the dance for years. Yes, I would like the option to use film and digital in the same body.

I remember Leica saying a digital Leica RF was not going to happen so who knows what the future holds.

Considering that every modern film M has pretty much the same build. If Leica were to ever create a digital module M it would be universal and they'd make a killing taking advantage of every Leica M ever sold. Knowing Leica it would probably cost around $3k-$5k. But truth be told it would be worth it. A digital sensor you could truly replace when the technology gets old and keep the camera.

 

[Bill58]

Whatever happened to one or our members who was gonna do that very thing (or on an older model, I can't remember) as a DIY project? I seem to recall he was working on it maybe 2 or 3 yrs. ago?

 

[Mr_Flibble]

A few weeks ago I saw a couple of links from Photo.net from a guy who built a full-sized B/W sensor into an M2 a few years ago.
I never did see the final results though.

 

[rxmd]

This concept has been kicked around for years.

I'm thinking - do you really think the folks at Leica haven't thought of this? And wouldn't you think a digital "insert" or replacement back would be hugely successful for them?

Leica tried that already for the R series, they built an actual product, and it did not fly off the shelves. It took them long to develop, it was a good product in the end and the press loved it, but it killed the R line.

Here's the catch: People do not want to buy hybrid camera systems. They like to talk about them, but when hybrid camera systems are actually available and for sale on the market, they don't buy them.

If Leica had thought it would make sense technically or financially to build a replacement back for old M cameras instead of a whole new camera, they would have done so.

 

[Rikkirutter]

My grandmother had a 1920's Singer...It was still used in the 1970's!, Seem like we may never see cameras made to last T H A T long. Not sure on the Leica's M6/M7, and the M8/M9... electronics can't last that long. maybe a new circuit board every 10 years on these? M1-M5 are till going strong.. A good thing. My M5 should last another 20 years (I hope, with another CLA in a few more years)

I still have my Grandmother's Singer - and still use it - and my Father :angel: volunteers with Work Aid servicing old Singers that then get sent out to developing countries. CLA is the key to longevity with a mechanical camera.

 

[Bill58]

Leica tried that already for the R series, they built an actual product, and it did not fly off the shelves. It took them long to develop, it was a good product in the end and the press loved it, but it killed the R line.

Here's the catch: People do not want to buy hybrid camera systems. They like to talk about them, but when hybrid camera systems are actually available and for sale on the market, they don't buy them.

If Leica had thought it would make sense technically or financially to build a replacement back for old M cameras instead of a whole new camera, they would have done so.

Leica can .......and does make a whole lot more $$ on new (overpriced as hell) digital cameras than drop-in digital backs/ bottoms. But I agree, the film nuts (me included) would not likely plunk down the cash for such an invention. Dead deal.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

Whatever happened to one or our members who was gonna do that very thing (or on an older model, I can't remember) as a DIY project? I seem to recall he was working on it maybe 2 or 3 yrs. ago?

It was more like five or six years ago (~2005).

A few weeks ago I saw a couple of links from Photo.net from a guy who built a full-sized B/W sensor into an M2 a few years ago. I never did see the final results though.

He never finished it - at least AFAIK. As I recall, the M8 was released a short time (no more than a year) after Huw Finney stopped reporting on his 'M2aD' project.

At the time he simply indicated he was too busy earning a living to complete it. He must have run into technical problems and ultimately couldn’t make it work - at least that's what it seemed to me at the time.

 

[Bill58]

It was more like five or six years ago (~2005).



He never finished it - at least AFAIK. As I recall, the M8 was released a short time (no more than a year) after Huw Finney stopped reporting on his 'M2aD' project.

At the time he simply indicated he was too busy earning a living to complete it. He must have run into technical problems and ultimately couldn’t make it work - at least that's what it seemed to me at the time.

Time flies, for sure. Thanks for clearing up my foggy brain.