Is my rangefinder misaligned?

[stormbytes]

Earlier this afternoon, I decided to take my recently purchased, minty M6-ttl for some target practice. I've had the camera sitting on my desk for a couple weeks now, fiddling with it now and again, pointing at stuff and learning to focus. It was a fairly sunny day. I walked around my neighborhood, casually pointing at stuff and focusing. I found it easier focusing the RF in my dimly-lit living room then in bright, afternoon sun. As I looked up and down at different things, through the vf, I found it increasingly hard to get the two images to match up! The ghost was always higher or lower by a smidge.

Is there something I'm missing about shooting off-level? Or is my camera somehow b0rked?!

 

[BobYIL]

It can not be "always higher or lower by a smidge".. Either higher or lower. Check again.. The height adjustment of the M-Leicas is easy however your description is wrong.

 

[stormbytes]

The height adjustment of the M-Leicas is easy however your description is wrong.

Just stepped outside and tried focusing, paying attention to vertical alignement. The ghost image seems to be just a hair lower then the actual image; if that description makes any sense....

 

[BobYIL]

You can not align it yourself, it requires special screw driver. If you have some service nearby then have it aligned. If not, use it as it is until you need a CLA. It's not worth to send it out for a "hair" adjustment.

 

[stormbytes]

You can not align it yourself, it requires special screw driver. If you have some service nearby then have it aligned. If not, use it as it is until you need a CLA. It's not worth to send it out for a "hair" adjustment.

Using it "as-is" after shelling out $1,800.00 isn't something I'm open to. I googled vertical RF alignment and came across the same information.

I bought the camera in "mint condition". The seller failed to mention minor cosmetic blemishes - I let that go. Its hard enough learning to align microscopic elements within the little patch, against a yellow-ish background.

Now this? No sir.

 

[BobYIL]

Minty M6 for $1,800.00? I would send it back..

 

[stormbytes]

M6-ttl, and its' going back.

I'm so $#%^$#% pissed.......

 

[Dylan Hope]

If the seller tried to pass it off as a mint condition camera, definitely send it back. And 1800 for it?! Amazon sells used M6s (Non-ttl) for 1500, you could probably get a much better deal at KEH.
I feel for your troubles, man.

 

[Rob-F]

If the seller tried to pass it off as a mint condition camera, definitely send it back. And 1800 for it?! Amazon sells used M6s (Non-ttl) for 1500, you could probably get a much better deal at KEH.
I feel for your troubles, man.

Yes, KEH is an excellent resource for used cameras and lenses.

 

[stormbytes]

Thanks Dylan -

I don't think the seller was lying. Judging by his auctions he's not exactly short of cash. My guess is he's an older gentleman and couldn't quite see the slight misalignment.

He said he put a handful of rolls through the camera. The camera doesn't appear to have seen much use, albeit there's no way to tell how the camera was stored/handled and how many years lapsed between those rolls.

I sent an email asking for RMA/refund.

I'm seriously pissed though.. Maybe heartbroken is a better word..

 

[BobYIL]

Daniel, there is an EX condition M4 at KEH for $1.219.. (If I were you..)

 

[stormbytes]

First I need to get my $ back.

I'm also not too keen on buying from dealers. There's a local offering which I'm going to try to negotiate. Will report back.

 

[stormbytes]

I had a terrific conversation with a Leica technician who has worked for over 30 years in the field. I was asked not to mention any names, so I'll leave it out. I was told that the TTL isn't a particularly good design, and that the M6 was better (and cheaper). Maybe this whole mess isn't as bad as I thought. I can send back the TTL for a full refund, putting a nice chunk of change back into my pocket and the rest towards a nice and shiny M6.

The story goes on..

 

[Ken_Watson]

Daniel,
My M6 had the same misalignment issue you described. I would hang on to your M6 TTL. Although you do need Leica tools the vertical alignment adjustment is a quick and straight forward one. Some Leica store technicians are trained to make the adjustment in store (no need to send it back to Leica). It takes about an hour to make the adjustment. You have to take the camera apart to get at the mechanism.
I took my camera back to the Leica store where I bought it from and they adjusted it free of charge (brilliant service I thought).
Once it's adjusted you'll have a solid and reliable M6 ready to shoot!

 

[john_s]

I bought a brand new M6TTL here in Melbourne and it had the same problem. They fixed it in store but it was still a bit out. I put up with it for a year or two then took it back. They charged me to fix it and still couldn't get it quite right. Then I took it around the corner to Camera Exchange (since moved) and Vic Plant fixed it perfectly. It's still perfect.

So it seems to me to be a weakness of the design. At least it would be nice if it were user-adjustable, like the Mamiya 6 and 7.

 

[awilder]

As an owner of M bodies since the early 80's, I tended to be a bit obsessive about RF alignment both vertical and horizontal (i.e. focus callibration). M5's and earlier were a cinch to align if ever knocked out of adjustment. M4-P and later required a special tool to adjust the vertical that can be purchased for about $60 from Japan Exposures. I've used it and it works, but requires patience as it's a little tricky to get exactly right. Here's another glitch no one's mentioned: even if you do align the vertical "perfectly" at infinity, the vertical sometimes may not remain perfect at 0.7 m where the secondary or "ghost" image might be slightly higher or lower than the primary or main image. I've seen this in a few M's to various degrees, the worst being an example of an M4. My guess is that it's a result of a slight tilt in the platform that holds the swinging objective assembly as it move through the focusing range. The point is that these optical systems have limits to exactness of adjustment but generally are quite good.

 

[stormbytes]

Ken,

I shipped the camera back to the seller, earlier this afternoon, and I'm glad I did. Several factors went into that decision, but the main issue was the price paid for the camera. At a high price point, even trivial matters become valid considerations.

I had the chance to speak with a reputable, experienced Leica technician who, lets just say recommended 'against' the TTL model. Suffice to say, I'm happy I'll be getting my money back.

In other news....

I negotiated the purchase for a late-80's, 174xxxx M6 in mint condition, and for about a third-less then the former. The camera had (documented) CLA from Red Dot Camera in the UK last summer.

A picture is worth a thousand words (and then some...)

 

[stormbytes]

So it seems to me to be a weakness of the design. At least it would be nice if it were user-adjustable, like the Mamiya 6 and 7.

The camera that replaces the M6-TTL (for me, that is) has the adjustment accessible. AFAIK, the TTL model requires you destroy (or remove) a sticker, then adjust using a special (and by special I mean 'expensive') tool.

The M6-TTL was not highly recommended by the Leica tech, unless you shoot a lot of flash, and even then, at 1/50th ? Not very practical.

 

[awilder]

Same mechanism. Even the new MP has the same mechanism with the exception of improved RF optics coatings and the the flare fix.

 

[keytarjunkie]

Man, this is just why I don't like Leicas. On my Mamiya 7, I can easily (and carefully) calibrate the rangefinder myself with a small screwdriver. I can also lay some ground glass over the film plane and make sure the rangefinder is accurate.