Fuji X Pro-1, Who's Buying?

[jsrockit]

Probably can't go wrong with either camera BW.

 

[jsrockit]

Maitini would only pay probably $1200 for the Fuji body, but would pay $2,200 for a used M8, with 6 year old sensor with poor peformance above ISO 400, plus the need for IR filters.

Well, this is more about it being a mechanical rangefinder with a native M mount most likely. It feels like a M camera too... and no other camera does. That matters to some.

 

[splitimageview]

Maybe if it were an Olympus X-Pro1, maitani would have a different take

 

[tbarker13]

Having not seen one yet, I can make no judgments about the build quality of this camera.
However, people do have a tendency to equate heft with build quality. I see this all the time in my other passion - firearms.
People complain about the cheap feel of the lighter polymer (tupperware guns, some people call them) guns made by companies like Glock. Yet those guns have proven themselves to be virtually indestructible. They are every bit as durable as their all-steel brethren.

Let's just not make the mistake of thinking a camera is poorly built simply because it has some plastic parts and doesn't weigh 3lbs. We'll know they're poorly built if they start falling apart or breaking down when exposed to pro-level usage.

 

[RealXenuis]

Why are you apologizing? No one's taking your comment seriously. Continue!

Had the opportunity to handle one this
weekend, I first thought the lenses are 'dummies' but they were real, sorry guys this kind of build quality is a joke for the asked price, the aperture made scratching noises, the lenses are full plastic built, and not even heavy duty feeling..

other than than, i like the size, ergonomics and the optical viewfinder, build of the body is ok, feels better in hand than the x100, but nowhere, nowhere, near a realy built camera like an M or Nikon SP.

the best thing about is is the sensor, and the optics seem to be quite good even wideopen, although, no game changers..

I expected much more to be completely honest with you... for what they are asking at launch im definitely not buying, I guess a used M8 would do it for me, if the price drops to 1500 usd including one lens i might change my mind in the future

 

[chris00nj]

Having not seen one yet, I can make no judgments about the build quality of this camera.
However, people do have a tendency to equate heft with build quality. I see this all the time in my other passion - firearms.
People complain about the cheap feel of the lighter polymer (tupperware guns, some people call them) guns made by companies like Glock. Yet those guns have proven themselves to be virtually indestructible. They are every bit as durable as their all-steel brethren.

Let's just not make the mistake of thinking a camera is poorly built simply because it has some plastic parts and doesn't weigh 3lbs. We'll know they're poorly built if they start falling apart or breaking down when exposed to pro-level usage.

Yes, heft= doesn't mean it is impervious to damage. My Leica M3 fell out of a camera bag from about 3 feet onto my living room floor. The rangefinder/viewfinder window shattered.



Re firearms, you must be thinking of the 1911 fanboys. Yeah, its a nice gun, but it is still a 101 year old design.

 

[celluloidprop]

The age of the design isn't all that comparable - so far, we don't have autofocus handguns.
To take that in a different direction, though, a modern 1911 is reliable and easy to shoot, excellent ergonomically and aesthetically pleasing. It just might need a little more preventative maintenance (might!).
If your life depends on your gun running without cleaning or changing springs, polymer guns would be my choice. OTOH, if my life depended on my gun I'd probably be a lot more anal about maintenance (which isn't saying much, I don't clean guns unless I have to).

I've had a variety of plastic and while I liked the M&P series, I wound up culling all my centerfire handguns to a custom Nighthawk Talon II in 9mm and a Ed Brown Special Forces .45.

 

[gavinlg]

The weight thing is a fujifilm trademark. Think of pretty much ALL the fujifilm cameras. Klasse w and s, GA/GS645's etc etc. They're all lightweight. When you first pick them up you think "wow this things a bit plasticky and hollow", but in use you realize that they're indeed very strong and dependable machines. This x-pro1 should be the same. I'm for one really glad that it's lightweight. I know leica feel awesome and like they're milled out of metal, but my x100 is the perfect weight to be hung from my shoulder all day long, and I don't notice it's there. The x-pro1 is only slightly heavier with a lens. Perfect.

 

[splitimageview]

I prefer the weight of the X-Pro1 to that of a film M.

Here they are: X-Pro1 with SD and battery, and M4 with film...and battery

 

[maitani]

Why are you apologizing? No one's taking your comment seriously. Continue!

wow, seems like I tapped into a bees nest here, I'm sorry for not sharing the uniform 'hype-am-all-in-for-it-i'm pre ordering two or three', actually i went there to the place an order on the camera, as there was an opportunity for a hands on.. i just expected much more, so i didn't order it (yet) neither did I say i hate it and I will never buy it, to me it just feels like a 1500$ camera not 2500$ camera.. (being completely honest)

I don't want to discredit fujis approach the camera is indeed very good, it's just no worth the asked money to me for the following reasons, there are many likes and dislikes there as there are for as on all products

here are my negatives first:

-built worse than a E-P1/2 or Panasonic L1, let alone M8
-Lenses squeek when focusing (might have been pre-production)
-aperture dial didn't feel right to me, lacking tactility (every bessa lens I know is better in this regard)
-manual focusing is emergency only imo this is a 100% AF camera (some may of course like that)
-by wire focusing lacks mechanical smoothness of true RF lenses
-the planned M-adapter might have to focus your M lenses with loupe in EVF mode, (the fuji guys didn't want to comment on this either yet)
-Electronic VF is mediocre, nothing to write home about
-same laggy menu feeling as on x100
-not a real rangefinder camera

positives:
-Very nice body size and body weight.
-no bull**** extrernal buttons reduced to the essential (great)
-thoughtful interface
-excellent (superb) OVF, with framelines dropping in automatically when you adapter those fuji lenses
-superb, superb sensor (might be reason enough to buy in already, should be well in D3 territory)
-looks
-shutter sound much better than on x100 and M8
-great display
-fast operation

get your hands on one, I'm curious to read your impressions

regs
maitani

 

[Adanac]

I'm wondering how the shutter sound on the XPro1 could be better than on the X100, given that the X100's leaf shutter is as close to silent as you are ever going to get with a mechanical shutter.

If you've used a stock X100 without disabling the cheap cheesy *electronic fake shutter noise* then maybe that's what you are referring to. Who knows why Fujifilm would even put that as an option, let alone as a default setting, on a $1200 dollar single lens camera aimed at supposedly discriminating buyers... but don't use that as your basis for comparison.

Now squeaking lenses, that's something to write about.

 

[splitimageview]

Of course, it's up to the individual to decide if any given camera is worth the asking price. No one can really criticize anyone else in this regard.

My impressions differ from yours:


-built worse than a E-P1/2 or Panasonic L1, let alone M8

First, 'built worse' make it sounds like they are all built poorly. This is clearly not the case.

Not only that, I completely disagree. The M8 was a $5k camera when it came out and is not really in the same class in terms of build, IMHO.

-Lenses squeek when focusing (might have been pre-production)

Did not notice anything in this regard, just the AF sounds.

-aperture dial didn't feel right to me, lacking tactility (every bessa lens I know is better in this regard)

It is a light feeling. I didn't have any issue with it. It's not actually physically moving the aperture, remember...


-manual focusing is emergency only imo this is a 100% AF camera (some may of course like that)

Depends on what you are shooting, but it's correct that this is designed to be an AF camera.


-by wire focusing lacks mechanical smoothness of true RF lenses

Again, lightly damped...and similarly, you're not moving any glass mass when you turn the focusing ring. The feel was nice and smooth to me.


-the planned M-adapter might have to focus your M lenses with loupe in EVF mode, (the fuji guys didn't want to comment on this either yet)

Too early to comment.


-Electronic VF is mediocre, nothing to write home about

Compared to what?

-same laggy menu feeling as on x100

Completely disagree. After taking several hundred shots, operationally it is quite satisfying and the menu had no lag at all. Not sure how you are getting this impression...especially when you also mention as a positive: 'fast operation.'

-not a real rangefinder camera

It's not a real DSLR either, is that also a negative?


positives:
-Very nice body size and body weight.

Agreed

-no bull**** extrernal buttons reduced to the essential (great)

In general, agree

-thoughtful interface

I think the manual focus assist sequence could be improved.


-excellent (superb) OVF, with framelines dropping in automatically when you adapter those fuji lenses

OVF is indeed excellent.


-superb, superb sensor (might be reason enough to buy in already, should be well in D3 territory)

This is *the* reason to buy it. Along with the superb 35/1.4.

-looks

It's reasonably nice looking but that's not why I would buy it.

-shutter sound much better than on x100 and M8

Sweet shutter sound. I'm not sure what 'better' means though.

-great display

LCD is excellent. Makes the M9 LCD look like it came from a point and shoot circa '06. Oh wait...I think it did...

-fast operation

It's a bit slow to play back shots. A bit slower than my NEX.

 

[tbarker13]

To take that in a different direction, though, a modern 1911 is reliable and easy to shoot, excellent ergonomically and aesthetically pleasing. It just might need a little more preventative maintenance (might!).
If your life depends on your gun running without cleaning or changing springs, polymer guns would be my choice. OTOH, if my life depended on my gun I'd probably be a lot more anal about maintenance (which isn't saying much, I don't clean guns unless I have to).

I've had a variety of plastic and while I liked the M&P series, I wound up culling all my centerfire handguns to a custom Nighthawk Talon II in 9mm and a Ed Brown Special Forces .45.

I wouldn't recommend a 1911 to anyone who isn't willing to invest some time in learning how to keep the thing running. I shoot competitively. And am a safety officer in IDPA. So I see tons of shooters and different makes of guns. Those all-steel 1911s in the right hands are among the fastest/best options available.
But the also represent - by far - the largest number of breakdowns, jams, misfeeds, etc. that I see. Those polymer Glocks, on the other hand, are just so very reliable - with absolutely minimal maintenance.
The craftsmanship behind the 1911s (and they are my personal favorites) is fantastic. But that's not enough. Reminds me of some cameras I once owned.

 

[noimmunity]

-not a real rangefinder camera

It's not a real DSLR either, is that also a negative?

That's the thing about negative logic and specific difference: it cuts both ways. Nice one, Robert!

What the XP1 does have that is absolutely unique at this conjuncture is an optical viewfinder with tons of user-configurable live information that allows one to see outside the framelines yet uses an automated focusing system. Neither a DSLR nor a DRF provides this particular combination.

 

[bobbyrab]

Had a quick look at one yesterday and it seems to me the focus on m lenses will be visually with the efv, with fine tuning done with the 100% view button. Has anyone read of another way that they might be able to do it?

 

[macjim]

Seems to me that. There's a lot of talk about the pros and cons about the X-Pro 1, it's all conjecture due to the fact that many, if not 90%, of all contributors have yet to get their hands on one yet to tell what it's really like.
I'd say neither discount nor condemn this camera until you have had one in your hands. I've ordered one as I like what I've seen and read so far, hopefully I will not regret paying for one but I'm looking forward to getting it in my hands.
I have the Sony nex-5n and thoroughly enjoy using it, but I miss the optical viewfinder.
My Leica M9 is a beauty but it has a long learning curve for me as I've not used a rangefinder camera since the days of the cheap Russian models sold in Woolco (anyone remember them?) and I've restricted myself to a 35mm.
I'm looking forward to the clever viewfinder as it gives me the best of both worlds as it magnifies the image, and has an EVF plus the rear display.
This is not intended to offend or insult anyone so I hope no offence is taken.

 

[macjim]

http://www.thephoblographer.com/201...uji-x-pro-1-camera-system-with-sample-images/
Nice review of a preproduction model to whet your appetite

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[jsrockit]

Seems to me that. There's a lot of talk about the pros and cons about the X-Pro 1, it's all conjecture due to the fact that many, if not 90%, of all contributors have yet to get their hands on one yet to tell what it's really like.

Welcome to the internet....

 

[splitimageview]

That's the thing about negative logic and specific difference: it cuts both ways. Nice one, Robert!

What the XP1 does have that is absolutely unique at this conjuncture is an optical viewfinder with tons of user-configurable live information that allows one to see outside the framelines yet uses an automated focusing system. Neither a DSLR nor a DRF provides this particular combination.

Indeed. I think you said this at one point Jon; enjoy the camera for what it is, not what it isn't.

I enjoyed shooting with it, and the files were delicious. I'm sure the RAW will be even more tasty...

 

[willie_901]

Had a quick look at one yesterday and it seems to me the focus on m lenses will be visually with the efv, with fine tuning done with the 100% view button. Has anyone read of another way that they might be able to do it?

Your experience is completely consistent with the XP1 Owners' Manual.

Anyone that knows if Fuji plans to add another focus confirmation method when they release their M adapter isn't talking about it. I don't even remember reading when the M adapter will become available.