p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
I think it is older than 1911. According to the serial number it was produnced around 1902:
Manufacturer: Waltham
Manufacturer Location: Waltham, Massachusetts
Movement Serial Number: 11919187
Grade: Traveler
Model: 1899
Estimated Production Year: 1902
Run Quantity: 2,000
Grade/Model Run: 65 of 174
Grade/Model Total Production: 286,550
Size: 16s
Jewels: 7j
wlewisiii
Just another hotel clerk
Watch like that might have been produced in 1902 and sat at a jewelers till it caught someone's eye and Gra'pa bought it in '11.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Muggins
Junk magnet
That's really interesting, Pan - I must check where I got the info that it was 1911. He'd have been about 24 in 1902. I wonder if I can spot the chain in his wedding photo?
It certainly did! I believe old watches often restart for a bit when they are warmed up as old lube in there suddenly thins, but I very nearly tripped over my jaw when I realised!
raydm6
Yay! Cameras! 🙈🙉🙊┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘ [◉"]
I've posted this before:
1904 Waltham Hunter Pocket Watch. Still runs well. Amazing detail work.
1904 Waltham Hunter Pocket Watch by rdc154, on Flickr
1904 Waltham Hunter Pocket Watch by rdc154, on Flickr
1904 Waltham Hunter Pocket Watch. Still runs well. Amazing detail work.
1904 Waltham Hunter Pocket Watch by rdc154, on Flickr
1904 Waltham Hunter Pocket Watch by rdc154, on Flickr
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
This has been awesome seeing everyone's watches, and getting watchmaking advice from those of you who have been repairing watches! I just started working on one of the Waltham pocket watches last night.
GMOG
Well-known
Chris,
When working with more modern designs assembly is basically adding parts to the main plate. Assembling an 18S watch is done a little differently than most others, and this is due to the older style plate layout. The problem is getting the pallet fork into position.
To make it easy, start train assembly on the top plate, upside down. Then bring down the mainplate, line up the pivots, and then flip the whole shebang right side up. Beats the heck out of trying to get the pallet fork into position while also lining up all the pivots.
I forget who taught me that trick.
When working with more modern designs assembly is basically adding parts to the main plate. Assembling an 18S watch is done a little differently than most others, and this is due to the older style plate layout. The problem is getting the pallet fork into position.
To make it easy, start train assembly on the top plate, upside down. Then bring down the mainplate, line up the pivots, and then flip the whole shebang right side up. Beats the heck out of trying to get the pallet fork into position while also lining up all the pivots.
I forget who taught me that trick.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Well, I began disassembling the movement of the Waltham 12s Colonial B watch today. Sadly, I may not be able to fix it. I discovered that the jewel in the train bridge for the center wheel is broken. I checked eBay to see if I could buy a donor movement to get parts from. There were a bunch of them, but all had that jewel either missing or broken. For now, I'll keep the partly disassembled watch in these covered parts trays and put them off to the side until I can find a part for it.
You can see the video of me disassembling it on YouTube. I'll add more videos to this watch's playlist showing the rest of the service, if I am able to get parts later.
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
You can put a metal bush instead - it will work but it's not great. When US was placing huge tariffs to watches with more that 12 jewels (I think) back in the 50s/60s, the local distributors would remove jewels from watches and put metal sleeves to bring the jewel count down and not get taxed. They worked well.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Do you know where I can get one? Someone on one of the Facebook watch repair groups gave me a place that sells vintage watch parts. Their website says they have replacement jewels for a lot of American pocket watches; I sent him the movement info to see if he has one. I may be able to get the jewel; the website said most are $10, so that's not a big deal.
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
No idea. A quick search on eBay brought the following results but not sure if they are the right ones.
Vintage Automatic Wheel Bronze Bushings Watch Repairs FELSA AS ETA BULOVA CROTON | eBay UK
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Vintage Automatic Wheel Bronze Bushings Watch Repairs FELSA AS ETA BULOVA CROTON at the best online prices at eBay UK! Free delivery for many products!
www.ebay.co.uk
GMOG
Well-known
Chris,
Welcome to my world!
Too bad about the busted jewel. There's a good chance it was broken by someone installing the cannon pinion without supporting the center wheel's pivot on the other side. This kind of damage is often more than enough to "brick" a watch, especially those not deemed valuable enough to justify a proper fix.
It's a bezel-set jewel, not set by friction. The jewel is held in place by a thin lip of metal that's folded over. You have to replace the jewel and setting together, unless you're equipped to modify the existing setting and install a new jewel into it. You could buy several parts movements and probably not find a jewel-in-setting that would simply drop in. Pivot sizes vary. Arbor lengths and the distance between jewels vary. Outer diameter of the jewel settings and the holes they go into vary. If the setting is held in by screws the locations of those screws may vary. Variations like this are common between watches from the same run even, especially from pre-WWII times.
My fix would be to open up the hole in the jewel setting and install a modern friction-set jewel. I wouldn't remove the setting from the bridge for this work. I might even make a brass bush to friction in to the hole if a proper jewel is hard to find. And still, this is careful work, requiring proper centering of the modified hole so that the result keeps the wheel upright instead of tilted. This work requires special, expensive tooling and the knowledge required to use it.
The ideas for installing a brass bush are good but then the question becomes how to fit it to the watch. Generic brass bushings will need to be sized to fit, thus requiring some lathe time. They will be too thick, the hole and OD will require modification. Tolerances are defined in 1/100s of a millimeter. It would be easier to make a new bush to the required dimensions than it would be to modify a generic.
And thus we discover the beauty of more modern designs that use friction set jewels to begin with. Busted jewel? No prob! Shove out the remains and install a fresh one, check/set end play, and you're done.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Sounds like its not really fixable then
I don't have a lathe or the knowledge to use one yet.
GMOG
Well-known
Sounds like its not really fixable then
Sometimes damage like that makes a parts watch out of a regular ole watch. Maybe this is the first entry into your "bone yard".
Does it still run? If so why not go through the motions and do what you can with it? At least put it back together. That way nothing gets lost and later you might be in a position to do more with it.
Is the jewel broke out or is it cracked with the pieces still in place? Broke out is obviously a problem. When the pieces are there the wheel will still run in position, but the cracks draw the oil away, and sharp edges will eventually chew up the pivot.
Incidentally, consistency between parts is much better in the higher grade watches, and then most stuff that came after WWII.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
It doesn't run. Before I took it apart, it would not start running when I wound it, but if I nudged the balance wheel it would start running but would stop after a short time.
I've already begun a parts collection. When I was working on my grandpa's watch, I lost a screw and bought a broken movement for $16 to get the screw from. The movement was filthy, caked in dried gunk, so I disassembled it and ran the parts through my watch cleaner. I tossed out a couple of broken parts (a gear with missing teeth and a spring that was broken in half) and put the rest of the parts in little ziplock bags that I labeled so if I ever work on another watch with the ETA 1220 movement, I will have a lot of good replacement parts and screws if needed!
A few of the parts right out of the cleaning basket.
Packaged and labeled
Organized by what part of the movement they were from
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
I'm impressed with the organization. I do very similar approaches to camera repairs and my parts (and tools).
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Last night, I decided to start work on the wristwatch that Maurice gave me. This is an Andre Bouchard, which was a store brand for a now-closed American department store chain called E.J. Korvette. These were inexpensive watches, but many of them, including mine, had Swiss movements. This has a manual wind movement made by the "Hydepark Watch Company," which was another American company that imported Swiss watches and movements and put their name on them.
I decided to do this one before the Elgin pocket watch because both watches have the Incabloc shock protection system, which has tiny springs that hold the balance cap jewels in place. These are hard to open and easy to mess up, so I wanted to practice on this because its in beat up condition and was an obscure brand; if I screw up, I'll be sad but less sad than if I messed up an Elgin! This one will also give me a chance to change out a crystal; the acrylic crystal is milky, and it looks like the milkiness is all the way through the plastic, not on the surface. Its scratched up really badly too, so it needs replaced. I really like the dial on it; it is a lot more beautiful seen outside the case, without the cloudy crystal obscuring it. I'll definitely wear this watch once I get it serviced and the crystal replaced.
I got everything disassembled last night, except for removing the balance. I was getting tired and want to wait till I'm rested to mess with that, since I have to remove those Incabloc springs before I remove the balance from the movement. As with the other watches I've worked on, I am videoing the work. You can see it on YouTube:
GMOG
Well-known
Some things to know about Incabloc:
- Do not remove the springs, simply open them and hinge them up and out of the way. They clip on at the hinge end, and can be tough to clip back on without breaking them. After removing the jewels clip the spring back into its place.
- The Incabloc spring holds down an assembly that's made up of the hole and cap jewels and the setting for the hole. When you release the spring two things will come out; the setting with the hole jewel plus the cap. The two parts usually come out together as a unit, and you have to remove the cap for pegging prior to cleaning.
- Do not separate the balance wheel from the cock. There is no need, and there is a benefit. After removing most parts from the mainplate put the balance assembly back in place without the Incabloc jewels and let it sit there for the cleaning process. This protects the balance pivots and hairspring. It's one of the nice things about modern designs.
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Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Thanks for the advice on the Incabloc springs, it helped a lot! I successfully opened them and removed the jewel holders from the balance cock and the mainplate last night. I ended up having to remove the balance from the movement anyway, in order to get to the pallet fork and pallet bridge.
When I removed those, I saw a manufacturer's logo and model number on the mainplate under the spot where the balance and pallet fork had hidden it. I had been wondering who really made this movement, since "Hydepark Watch Company," whose name is engraved on the train bridge, did not actually make movements. They were an American importer who brought in Swiss movements and put their name on them. The movement is actually an Adolf Schild 1187/94.
That made it easier for me to order a new mainspring for it. I took the old one out of the barrel last night and it is shot. It has taken a bad set and is still coiled even out of the barrel. That will be here by the end of next week, along with a crystal lift so I can remove and measure the old crystal. I will order a new one next week. Later today, I will clean the movement and then set it aside till the new mainspring arrives so I can reassemble it.
Here's my video of the final disassembly: