Best Monochrome Options 2025 - Leica? Converted Files? Converted Cameras?

mrtoml said:
YMMV 🙂 I use it all the time now. I am using the browser version of lightroom cloud. Are you using that or the app?
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I’ve used both. I find that essentially all conversions take the highlights too far back from the actual point where they become white to meet publication standards (I deliver ready to publish both in print and on the web jpgs with a prescribed overall contrast and a prescribed contrast within 4 density ranges) and I can’t easily recover them (my own ineptitude is evident here). It’s why I continue to use a monochrome camera. I’m shooting at high (sometimes very, occasionally extremely high) ISO under artificial lights that I can’t control. On desktop applications I can get things how I like if I can use a luminance only conversion without demosaicing, or with a Silver Efex pre-set that I built very carefully a long time ago. Other programs haven’t worked for me. Speed complicates everything; I need to deliver the photos before the show is finished. I’m not allowed to take a laptop into most venues, and I’d prefer not to shoot, leave the venue (always complicated, sometimes impossible) and work on the photos on a laptop in my car; a lot of the venues are in places where this isn’t safe.

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Freakscene said:
I’ve used both. I find that essentially all conversions take the highlights too far back from the actual point where they become white to meet publication standards (I deliver ready to publish both in print and on the web jpgs with a prescribed overall contrast and a prescribed contrast within 4 density ranges) and I can’t easily recover them (my own ineptitude is evident here). It’s why I continue to use a monochrome camera. I’m shooting at high (sometimes very, occasionally extremely high) ISO under artificial lights that I can’t control. On desktop applications I can get things how I like if I can use a luminance only conversion without demosaicing, or with a Silver Efex pre-set that I built very carefully a long time ago. Other programs haven’t worked for me. Speed complicates everything; I need to deliver the photos before the show is finished. I’m not allowed to take a laptop into most venues, and I’d prefer not to shoot, leave the venue (always complicated, sometimes impossible) and work on the photos on a laptop in my car; a lot of the venues are in places where this isn’t safe.

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Can't you just put the highlights wherever you want 'em with curves?
 
brusby said:
Your highlights look correct in color but are darkening when converted to mono?
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No, they are lightening too much and losing detail. The highlights never look right straight out of the camera nomatter what camera I use because I have to expose down a lot in comparison to a normal exposure to stop any light areas from blowing out. On the M10M I’m typically exposing 1.7-2.7 stops under the meter, and on cameras with highlight weighted metering I typically expose a stop or so under.
 
Freakscene said:
No, they are lightening too much and losing detail. The highlights never look right straight out of the camera nomatter what camera I use because I have to expose down a lot in comparison to a normal exposure to stop any light areas from blowing out. On the M10M I’m typically exposing 1.7-2.7 stops under the meter, and on cameras with highlight weighted metering I typically expose a stop or so under.
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Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it sounds like your highlights are always blown out -- both in color and b&w -- unless you underexpose as you've described. If that is correct, it sounds more like digital sensor limitations rather than the processing software.

I almost always underexpose with digital sensors. 'Treat them like slide film in the old days where we exposed for the highlights as opposed to negative film where we exposed for the shadows and developed for the highlights. But I always attributed it to the limited dynamic range of digital sensors, not the processing software.

If, on the other hand, they are just blowing out during the conversion to mono, I'd love to see some examples if you have any you can share, of the correctly exposed color and blown out mono.
 
brusby said:
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it sounds like your highlights are always blown out -- both in color and b&w -- unless you underexpose as you've described. If that is correct, it sounds more like digital sensor limitations rather than the processing software.

I almost always underexpose with digital sensors. 'Treat them like slide film in the old days where we exposed for the highlights as opposed to negative film where we exposed for the shadows and developed for the highlights. But I always attributed it to the limited dynamic range of digital sensors, not the processing software.

If, on the other hand, they are just blowing out during the conversion to mono, I'd love to see some examples if you have any you can share, of the correctly exposed color and blown out mono.
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I’ve trashed them all, so I don’t have any. I have found an approach to luminance only conversion now, so I doubt I’ll go any further forward with this.

The driver behind this is that my eyesight is getting worse as I forge forward in my 50s and I can tell that eventually I’m definitely going to need an autofocus camera. And for these uses, for me, that means going mirrorless.

Marty
 
Freakscene said:
I’ve trashed them all, so I don’t have any. I have found an approach to luminance only conversion now, so I doubt I’ll go any further forward with this.

The driver behind this is that my eyesight is getting worse as I forge forward in my 50s and I can tell that eventually I’m definitely going to need an autofocus camera. And for these uses, for me, that means going mirrorless.

Marty
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Just a quick note on eyesight - I’m 60 this week and had a retinal tear and detachment in my right eye back before Covid. A year after the repair I needed a lens replacement due to (the almost inevitable) cataract. Since then my sight has been better than it was for years beforehand - in my right eye at least! Down side is now that my left eye needs a -9.0 contact lens and my right -0.75 for optimal vision. Or I can happily use no correction in my right eye and read easily or shoot easily.

Not suggesting lens replacement for a healthy eye!
 
Freakscene said:
I’ve trashed them all, so I don’t have any. I have found an approach to luminance only conversion now, so I doubt I’ll go any further forward with this.

The driver behind this is that my eyesight is getting worse as I forge forward in my 50s and I can tell that eventually I’m definitely going to need an autofocus camera. And for these uses, for me, that means going mirrorless.

Marty
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Perhaps Leica will come out with a Q3-90-M for us old farts....and you too.
 
BillBingham2 said:
Perhaps Leica will come out with a Q3-90-M for us old farts....and you too.
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A Q3 43M with enough MP would be fine. I use a 50mm lens almost all the time. But the AF would need to be better than the current one, and they need to make the camera less susceptible to dust ingress. Smoke machine residue on the Q3 sensor meant I needed to get its sensor cleaned every time I used it 🙄🫩 and this means a trip back to Leica 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️
 
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I recently took the jump and had my GRiiix converted at monomod.eu.
I am currently processing the images, but I am very pleased. One downside is the lack of direct mobile support, but Capture One Mobile reads the files just fine and quick editing yields OK results. Even the JPGs are perfectly usable. During a recent trip, using only an iPad, I remotely accessed my Mac to convert Monochrom2DNG files and send back via cloud. Works, but the final editing is happening at home on screen anyway, so using the RAW – without Monochrome2DNG – for quick editing in Capture Mobile on the go is likely more efficient and sufficient for web use.
Iridient seems to work well with mono files as well, with the Hifi B&W just marginally worse in absolute resolution than the Monochrome2DNG conversion.

Another curious finding - a cheap wide-angle converter from AliExpress seems to work better (or at least as well) than the Ricoh GW4 on the GRiiix (and its much lighter and smaller too), the approx. 30mm FOV is perfectly usable.
I chose the GRiiix conversion over the GR4 Mono as I prefer 40 mm (with occasional 30mm and full compatibility with the tele-converter) over the 28mm of the GR4 (with mediocre performance with the tele-converter).
Plus, I have a beater GRiii that serves for colour images.
 
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Freakscene said:
Is there a good direct monochrome tool for iOS or iPadOS? I often need to work with a mobile device.
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I really like Darkr for black and white conversions on the iPad. I like the results I get from this app better than what I get from others, and it is fun to use. It visualizes black and white conversion of a color image as developing a physical negative into a print in the darkroom. It sounds kind of corny (and maybe it is), but it actually results in a very usable interface with granular control over global contrast and easy to use dodge and burn tools. It works well with RAW files too. It is not quick to use, however, and I would not want to have to process a large number of files with it on a deadline. It's a rare app that is still free with a one-time purchase of $3.99 to unlock all the pro features. I did that so long ago that I do not remember what features are not included in the free version.

Snapseed is pretty good for black and white conversions too.

[Just want to say up front that I am mostly a film shooter and my knowledge of processing digital images is, I am sure, only a small fraction of that of other people posting here. I just do this stuff for fun, and these apps work well for me.]
 
Disappointed_Horse said:
I really like Darkr for black and white conversions on the iPad. I like the results I get from this app better than what I get from others, and it is fun to use. It visualizes black and white conversion of a color image as developing a physical negative into a print in the darkroom. It sounds kind of corny (and maybe it is), but it actually results in a very usable interface with granular control over global contrast and easy to use dodge and burn tools. It works well with RAW files too. It is not quick to use, however, and I would not want to have to process a large number of files with it on a deadline. It's a rare app that is still free with a one-time purchase of $3.99 to unlock all the pro features. I did that so long ago that I do not remember what features are not included in the free version.

Snapseed is pretty good for black and white conversions too.

[Just want to say up front that I am mostly a film shooter and my knowledge of processing digital images is, I am sure, only a small fraction of that of other people posting here. I just do this stuff for fun, and these apps work well for me.]
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Thanks, neither of these access the file luminance without demosaicing. I have Lightroom on my phone and iPad but would really like a luminance only raw converter.
 
Freakscene said:
A Q3 43M with enough MP would be fine. I use a 50mm lens almost all the time. But the AF would need to be better than the current one, and they need to make the camera less susceptible to dust ingress. Smoke machine residue on the Q3 sensor meant I needed to get its sensor cleaned every time I used it 🙄🫩 and this means a trip back to Leica 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️
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And I'm guessing quite a few shekels too. What did they charge you?

B2 (;->
 
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