1.3x crop Digital Ikon in the works?

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Wiyum

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Has anyone noticed that on the Zeiss site, the description of every lens makes explicit mention of the effective focal length on a digital rangerfinder with a 1.3x crop factor? Are they just trying to sell to M8 users, or are they working on a camera as well? Certainly, they've done a better job than Leica at filling those sub-28mm gaps to get real wideangle into photographers' hands, so just marketing to M8 users could make sense. They are, after all, an optics-maker first and foremost.

But they've also made a considerable splash in the M-mount world by making a camera and lenses that rival Leica quality at a fraction of the price, almost certainly proving that most of what you're paying for with Leica is the name. This approach would certainly work with a $3000 or less digital rangefinder. As well as the M8 has sold, how many people have stayed away because $5000 is simply too much to spend? And with Zeiss' great relationship with Sony (and others) how hard would it be for them to put something together?

I'd love a world where I could have a fullframe dslr with Zeiss glass (D3 with ZFs would work, but I'm hoping the ZA line expands when the new Sony camera arrives) and a Zeiss dRF with those wonderful ZM lenses.

Hell, bring back the Contax 645 glass on that new PhaseOne/Mamiya system and I'd be wanting for nothing at all.

Just curious if anyone else thinks that the dIkon might actually be on the way or if the changes to the Zeiss site are simply angling for the m8 userbase to buy Zeiss glass.
 
Well, the head bartender confirms that Nikon has an M mount digital RF project in the works. Not sure if that means anything comes to fruition, but that'd be pretty sweet.
 
abenner said:
Well, the head bartender confirms that Nikon has an M mount digital RF project in the works. Not sure if that means anything comes to fruition, but that'd be pretty sweet.
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This is kind a joke started on Dpreview forum a 1.5 year ago and then rejected as `It was my fantasy guys!`
 
leicasniper said:
I would be extremely surprised (and replace my crystal ball) if anyone goes down the digital rangefinder road again. To say that the M8 has sold well is being generous at best.
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It's not that digital is bad. It's just that the M8 is not up par with the expectations.
 
I don't think a German company would give its product this name. That would be the unfortunate nickname applied by the idiot user.
 
QUAsit said:
This is kind a joke started on Dpreview forum a 1.5 year ago and then rejected as `It was my fantasy guys!`
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I know what you're talking about but S Gandy confirmed that Nikon does have such a project. If anyone would know I think he might. Again that doesn't mean anything ever comes to fruition but it'd be sweet if it did. I won't hold my breath.
 
No major manufacturer is going to ignore the potential for a D-Rf. Epson started it with the RD 1 (which is still around and has achieved the enviable position of being a "cult" camera). The M8 continued in this vein and though not as resounding success as was initially expected, it has still sold 15-16000 bodies. Neither Nikon,Canon,Pentax or Sony would ignore it - there is still 100 000's lenses out there which are M compatible and that constitutes a big market (not as in P&S cameras or DSLR's - but in revenue).
I am sure that something will be shown at Photokina in Sept. Doesn't mean that it would be "finished" products - could be prototypes and used to gauge public response.
There is a persistant rumour that Epson is outting the RD1 back into play. If they do and take advantage of technology developed since 2004 - maybe 12 MP D-size sensor and retain the ergonomics of the original RD1 which its flippable screen, thumb-advance and the compact size, it would sell.
 
Tom A said:
No major manufacturer is going to ignore the potential for a D-Rf.
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Tom, such encouraging words! I have to say that I love my Epson. They got so much right with this camera!! An R-D2 would be very cool.

I enjoy the images my R-D1 makes with Leica and Zeiss glass more than what my Canon 20D does. I'm not sure why. Perhaps it is that they have a personality.
 
The fact that they mention a 1.3 crop does not mean they're making a 1.3x digital RF. It would be nice if Zeiss could use their relationship with Sony to get a nice sensor into a ZI, but they have stated that they want to wait until they can get a full-frame sensor and until digital sensor tech advancement slows down a bit. I don't think we'll see anything from them for a while.

Wiyum said:
...almost certainly proving that most of what you're paying for with Leica is the name.
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I think what you're really paying for is very expensive German labor instead of somewhat less expensive Japanese labor. Also keep in mind that the M7 still has a few things the Ikon doesn't, like TTL flash metering and multiple magnification options. Either way, I love the Ikon.
 
The sensor in the 5D has been around awhile and still performs great. And the camera is only about $1900. How much of that would you say is just the sensor? There's got to be a team of engineers somewhere willing to put this thing together. I give it another two years before we start seeing full frame in consumer lines. And then they will be affordable enough to put in a digital rangefinder that will have limited sales.
 
I hope Tom A. is right and that new RF's are coming. To my mind, the RD was just one sensor generation away from being a bellwether camera and Leica still has this huge price/performance gap that leaves so much room for other contenders.

I also hope the folks developing a new digital RF aren't spending too many resources on in-camera processing or funky gas-gauge controls. If they think they have to do something, encoding the current frame-line selection and leaving the rest for post-processing would work for me.
 
Sam N said:
The fact that they mention a 1.3 crop does not mean they're making a 1.3x digital RF. It would be nice if Zeiss could use their relationship with Sony to get a nice sensor into a ZI, but they have stated that they want to wait until they can get a full-frame sensor and until digital sensor tech advancement slows down a bit. I don't think we'll see anything from them for a while.



I think what you're really paying for is very expensive German labor instead of somewhat less expensive Japanese labor. Also keep in mind that the M7 still has a few things the Ikon doesn't, like TTL flash metering and multiple magnification options. Either way, I love the Ikon.
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It is impossible to make a full frame sensor to a rangefinder camera with today's technology. It would also be illogical for Zeiss to mention 1,3 crop factor on their lense pages since none of the two rangefinder cameras currenty on the market have this crop factor.

A 1,3 crop rangefinder from Zeiss (Cosina?) would still be an improvement on RD-1s. A 1,3 crop factor is far better than 1,5 and quite workable. Many pro's work with this crop factor on several Canon models. So, I would not worry about this crop factor. More of an issue would be vignetting and low noice/high ISO. We shall see: It will be a challange to meet M8's spesifications in this regard too. To make low vignetting & low noice/high ISO is far easier on D-SLR's.

German wages are quite comparable to Japanese, though. Up until the recent € appreciation, German wages, generally, were lower than the Japanese. Small scale production of rangefinder cameras are quite demanding on worker's skills and not suited for low wage countries.

The price of a 12 mill. pixel - 1,3 crop digital Zeiss Ikon will be 4,500 - 5,000 $. At least.
 
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The M8 has a 1.3 crop.

I'd would have loved a digital RF, but the RD-1 was too risky and the M8 too expensive. So for now it's the ZI and scanner. 🙂 Such hardship!
 
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