sper
Well-known
So we have the Pen series, the Panny Micro 4/3rds and the NEX cameras from Sony. I'm not a baller by any stretch. The M8/9 are out of reach, and the RD-1 is of little interest to me.
What is the current best option for my growing collection of M lenses? With the EVF of the Pen I would say it's the EPL-1, but those images always look fairly soft when shot with M lenses. I haven't seen much from the Panasonic cameras. I've played with the NEX and I honestly really like the design and the crop factor is way better. But there are a lot of reviews are pretty negative about it.
So, any experiences with a modern digital option for we the common people? Are we there yet or are we a few generations away?
Please post images!
What is the current best option for my growing collection of M lenses? With the EVF of the Pen I would say it's the EPL-1, but those images always look fairly soft when shot with M lenses. I haven't seen much from the Panasonic cameras. I've played with the NEX and I honestly really like the design and the crop factor is way better. But there are a lot of reviews are pretty negative about it.
So, any experiences with a modern digital option for we the common people? Are we there yet or are we a few generations away?
Please post images!
fotomeow
name under my name
I bought the Pen when it first came out, excited as hell to use my M lenses on it, only to find out that the IQ from the M lenses didnt hold up due to the sensor angle, etc. I returned the Pen after 2 weeks, got an RD-1s and have been happy ever since.
We're starting to see the Nex + M mount lens image posts, the 1.5 X is great, so it may be promising, but I need to see some B&W shots to get a better idea.
We're starting to see the Nex + M mount lens image posts, the 1.5 X is great, so it may be promising, but I need to see some B&W shots to get a better idea.
PCB_RF
Established
It's easier to make a recommendation if we know what focal lengths you use the most. Both IQ and Effective Focal Length are sensor-dependent, so knowing what FL you like best is important.
In general, NEX seems to have better IQ with M-mount wideangle lenses. M4/3 has EVF options NEX doesn't, and many feel it has better handling.
If you like M-mount wides, NEX doesn't seem to have the corner smearing issues M4/3 has with Leica RF wides, though I haven't seen any side-by-side comparisons yet. NEX also has less crop, better for wides.
Most of the NEX complaints pertinent to legacy lens use have been about user interface, so if you've already tried it and liked it, no worries there.
None of the M4/3 sensors do a good job with Leica wides, so you're likely going to be disappointed with IQ. If you shoot mostly over 35mm, and can deal with the 2x crop, M4/3 can work well for you.
At that point, Oly vs. Pany, EPL1 vs. whatever is more personal preference than anything else. Sensor issues are more similar than handling differences, IMHO.
I intensely dislike the NEX interface, and I need an EVF for outdoor use, so NEX doesn't work for me yet. An upscaled NEX 7 could fix that? I'm using M4/3, but I've given up trying to use Leica RF wides with M4/3, since the native alternatives are faster and better than the M-mount wides I can afford.
In general, NEX seems to have better IQ with M-mount wideangle lenses. M4/3 has EVF options NEX doesn't, and many feel it has better handling.
If you like M-mount wides, NEX doesn't seem to have the corner smearing issues M4/3 has with Leica RF wides, though I haven't seen any side-by-side comparisons yet. NEX also has less crop, better for wides.
Most of the NEX complaints pertinent to legacy lens use have been about user interface, so if you've already tried it and liked it, no worries there.
None of the M4/3 sensors do a good job with Leica wides, so you're likely going to be disappointed with IQ. If you shoot mostly over 35mm, and can deal with the 2x crop, M4/3 can work well for you.
At that point, Oly vs. Pany, EPL1 vs. whatever is more personal preference than anything else. Sensor issues are more similar than handling differences, IMHO.
I intensely dislike the NEX interface, and I need an EVF for outdoor use, so NEX doesn't work for me yet. An upscaled NEX 7 could fix that? I'm using M4/3, but I've given up trying to use Leica RF wides with M4/3, since the native alternatives are faster and better than the M-mount wides I can afford.
sper
Well-known
I have the 50mm 1.5 Nokton, the 21mm f4 color skopar, and the 28mm 2.0 Nokton. Those are the lenses I would use, probably nothing wider, unless I pick up a CV 15mm.
I found the NEX interface very straight forward. I just put it in aperture priority and went. But I will admit, the lack of an EVF is annoying enough to prevent me from buying one. I just won't be able to acurately focus a 50mm lens, or even a wide agle, wide open. But if the image quality is as good as the RD-1s, at higher resolution, that sounds like its worth watching.
I found the NEX interface very straight forward. I just put it in aperture priority and went. But I will admit, the lack of an EVF is annoying enough to prevent me from buying one. I just won't be able to acurately focus a 50mm lens, or even a wide agle, wide open. But if the image quality is as good as the RD-1s, at higher resolution, that sounds like its worth watching.
januaryman
"Flim? You want flim?"
Hmmm... I have not experienced that effect, or perhaps I'm not as discerning. When I look at a 100% view of a shot taken with the lowly Jupiter 3 (which even has some glass damage, BTW) I see a great deal of sharpness. (You can look here, and find that sharpness - no pun intended about the sharp holly leaves - near the center of the photo, which is in focus) - So I was wondering if maybe you got a bad sample? Or it could be the focusing method, which is SLR-like, rather than the split image rangefinder found on our beloved film cameras, and, I think, the Epson digital?
I sometimes have a hard time focusing the E-P2 as well, and not all my shots are razor sharp, but they have character!
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seakayaker1
Well-known
I have the GF1 and have used a couple of Leica M lens and a number of Leica LTM lens. Samples of the GF1 with the Summicron M 35/2: http://www.flickr.com/photos/26672618@N03/sets/72157624140936597/
If interested you will also find samples of other Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander Lens at Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/26672618@N03/sets/
. . . . . and as you requested, sample images . . . . .
International Fountain - Seattle Center
GF1 with Leica Summicron-M 35mm F/2 -- ISO 100 -- f/4 -- 1/1300
Friendship Bell - Seattle Center
GF1 with Leica Summicron-M 35mm F/2 -- ISO 100 -- f/2 -- 1/200
Borage & Bee
GF1 with Leica Summicron - M Aspherical 35mm f/2 -- ISO 100 -- f2.8 -- 1/640
GF1 with Leica Summicron-M 35mm F/2 -- ISO 100 -- f/4 -- 1/1300
Friendship Bell - Seattle Center
GF1 with Leica Summicron-M 35mm F/2 -- ISO 100 -- f/2 -- 1/200
Borage & Bee
GF1 with Leica Summicron - M Aspherical 35mm f/2 -- ISO 100 -- f2.8 -- 1/640
Fujitsu
Well-known
If it has to be digital try a Sony NEX 3. Personally I think film is still cooler (and "full frame") and with the new Plustek 7600 there is an affordable high quality home scanner available, but you decide...
PCB_RF
Established
PCB_RF
Established
The 21/4 and 28/2 might have corner issues, the 50/1.5 should be fine.
I think you'll really need to try your lenses on a couple of M4/3 cams and see how you like IQ and handling. Electrons here won't mean much till you try for yourself.
My interface issue with NEX was trying to change exposure compensation and ISO on the fly, which I do a lot in aperture priority. No dedicated buttons or wheels for this, you're always having to bring up the menu and navigate. Changing aperture was easy, but the other two critical adjustments were too far away and too slow to access for me. But lotsa folks don't mind, so definitely YMMV.
LCD focusing of manual lenses isn't hard for me indoors, especially with the ability to magnify the image. Outdoors is where I have problems and need the EVF. Plus I like the ability to shoot with the camera at eye level, braced against my face, elbows tucked, just like a "real" camera.
Considering the age of the RD1 sensor, it wouldn't surprise me if NEX IQ is better, especially at higher ISO.
If current M4/3 doesn't do it for you now, I'm guessing you'll have some better choices 6 months from now...
kxl
Social Documentary
I just ordered a Nex 5 primarily because of the APS-C sized sensor. Since my favorite lens (which I will use the most with the NEX 5) is the CV 35/1.2, the resulting eff. FL works for me. On an m4/3 body, the eff. FL would be too long.
I thought about waiting for the rumored NEX 7, with a rumored EVF, but even if all the rumors are true, that new body will be a larger form factor. The size of the NEX 5 is appealing.
I don't change settings all that often, except for aperture, so I don't believe the UI design will bother me.
I thought about waiting for the rumored NEX 7, with a rumored EVF, but even if all the rumors are true, that new body will be a larger form factor. The size of the NEX 5 is appealing.
I don't change settings all that often, except for aperture, so I don't believe the UI design will bother me.
douglasf13
Well-known
Changing exposure comp with NEX in A mode is easy. Press down on the 4 way and turn the wheel. You don't need to go into the menus.
PCB_RF
Established
Oh---cool! Sorry if I got that wrong. Do you push up, down, left or right? I guess it's shown on the screen since the ring itself has no labels or engravings?
What about ISO? Is there one-push access for ISO settings I'm overlooking?
I have to say I'm flustered every time I pick up the camera, and can't understand the wisdom of not having labeled, dedicated buttons and dials to access functions. For example, since the NEX P/A/S/M dial is virtual, you can't tell what mode the camera is in without powering up, and so of course you can't change the mode without powering up. If I leave my Oly/Pany in Manual mode when I turn it off, then want to shoot a quick grab shot in Program, I can switch the mode while picking up the camera, before/while I power up....
douglasf13
Well-known
You press down. There are labels all around the ring, and the little +/- symbol is for exposure comp. ISO is still menu driven, which is really the only issue for me. Granted, it's not THAT big of a deal, and I've been warming up to the idea of auto ISO more and more. Ideally, Sony will add a firmware upgrade to make ISO a little easier to get to, but I wouldn't call it a deal breaker.
PCB_RF
Established
Gee, what's my flippin' problem? Thanks for setting me straight. My brain doesn't remember labels around the ring, but pix of the bodies clearly show 'em there. I'm going to have to really look one over again and open my mind a bit.
If they could make one of the two unlabeled buttons a configurable Function button, then let you set Function to ISO, you could be cooking with gas.
douglasf13
Well-known
I agree, although those buttons are already menu and focus zoom when you use a manual lens, so I'm not sure that would work or not. I think they should allow us to reassign one of the track pad buttons, like maybe the flash button (right press?)