Adorama and the infinite let down.

[brusby]

. . . [I'm not sure whether anyone has explained to you that the used department receives on average 1500 used items to evaluate each week, and there are around 28,000 used items in the warehouse....]

Helen, from a customer's perspective, that line of reasoning does absolutely nothing to instill confidence or make me/us want to do business with you.

If you're going to offer things for sale they should be handled correctly, or not at all, regardless of the volume. In fact, the greater the volume, the greater the potential profits and all the more reason to have sufficient staff for the tasks at hand.

Personally I've had great experiences with KEH in the past. But I just can't understand the refusal of KEH and other retailers to make photos of the used gear available prior to purchase, at least for gear above some $ limit. There would be a bit of labor involved, but it would save a lot of time, expense and frustration for buyers, not to mention the sellers' savings on returns -- unless, of course, the sellers have figured out a way to actually make a profit from the returned items that I'm not aware of, such as kickbacks or volume discounts from shippers.

However, we are certainly most happy to send a set of picures on request!

Hmmm, whenever I've asked for pictures, I've been told none are available. And whenever I've asked a sales rep to tell me about the particular piece I'm thinking of buying, the response has always been, "It's in another location we don't have access to".

 

[kxl]

Cal, sounds like some killer deals! Mail a little of that luck over here will ya!?
Thanks for chiming in!

Yeah - thanks Cal. Some eye-openings deals.

 

[Pioneer]

I would like to point out that I have bought several items from Adorama over the years and always received what was advertised. I have even asked to see pictures sometimes and received them promptly.

Likewise I have sold things to Adorama and been treated fairly.

If I felt the deal was not fair or appropriate I would have called and cleared up the issue. I love their return policies, something that can be far trickier on EBay.

 

[Addy101]

Helen, from a customer's perspective, that line of reasoning does absolutely nothing to instill confidence or make me/us want to do business with you.

I guess Helen should respond on this herself, however... if just 1% was handled incorrectly that would mean 15 products. To me, it is an explanation why it sometimes goes wrong. The real question is how often it goes wrong.

 

[seakayaker1]

I have bought used gear from Adoroma, B&H, and KEH.

I would say that I have had most luck with KEH in that the items I received were in great shape, and in most cases better than I expected. I did receive one lens from KEH that I did not like after using for a couple of days and returned for a quick refund.

The used items from Adorama and B&H were OK but have found their grading system not as accurate and the prices higher.

I have also found that the purchases from the classified section here and at a couple of other photography site has also proved to be positive for pricing and condition.

Best of luck to you with future purchases!

 

[HelenOster]

......I just can't understand the refusal of KEH and other retailers to make photos of the used gear available prior to purchase, at least for gear above some $ limit.......whenever I've asked for pictures, I've been told none are available. And whenever I've asked a sales rep to tell me about the particular piece I'm thinking of buying, the response has always been, "It's in another location we don't have access to".

It's true - it most probably IS in a different location. You are going to be talking to someone in NYC, while the gear is more than likely in New Jersey.

So, if you would like pictures, please email me directly: Helen@adorama.com.
It's doubtful whether the photographer is going to be spared to do this for a $100 item, but it is usually done for any serious gear.

BTW my point about quoting the number of items we take for evaluation was meant to illustrate the rapid turnover of used pieces, most of which are sold without actual photographs being provided. I guess it's a matter of economics; if every single item was photographed, the photographer's time would need to be added onto the price payable by every customer.

 

[frank-grumman]

I've bought Used from all three of these guys, mostly Nikon MF gear.... each item was what I would have expected given the rating... one item, a d300s was clearly out of spec and KEH had a replacement to me within 5 days. And none of the items I bought had a picture... so, I'm confident when I do it again, I'll get what I ordered or I'll be able to return it w/ no issues.... unlike what I've experienced when buying from Forum sites or eBay. YMMV

 

[barnwulf]

I have to say that I have always had great service from Adorama in buying new equipment and other supplies and one return that I can remember. If I am buying used, I usually buy from KEH. - jim

 

[HelenOster]

I've bought Used from all three of these guys, mostly Nikon MF gear.... each item was what I would have expected given the rating... one item, a d300s was clearly out of spec and KEH had a replacement to me within 5 days. And none of the items I bought had a picture... so, I'm confident when I do it again, I'll get what I ordered or I'll be able to return it w/ no issues.... unlike what I've experienced when buying from Forum sites or eBay. YMMV

Thank you for your comments, particularly those cncerning ease of return.
There aren't many eBay sellers that I'm aware of who offer a 6 month warranty plus 30-days returns period on used items!

 

[ColSebastianMoran]

I would just stick with KEH even if there website is completely unusable now

Try http://classic.keh.com for the old web site; same inventory.

 

[Timmyjoe]

That Classic KEH is much easier for me to navigate than the new site.

One other thing that I find with KEH that I do not find with B&H or Adorama, KEH has a tendency to remove items from lenses that came from the factory, like lens hoods, cases, and sometimes even front and rear caps. They will sell them to you as separate items. I have never had this with used items I have purchased through B&H or looked at with Adorama.

Best,
-Tim

 

[djcphoto]

A few years ago I needed three Hasselblad lenses for an extended trip to Europe; 50, 150 and 250mm. Having had very good experience with KEH in the past, I tried to get all three from there. However, they didn't have any 50mm Distagons in stock so I ordered that from Adorama, going for Ex condition on all of them. The lenses from KEH were great; the lens from Adorama showed up looking as if the truck delivering the KEH lenses had ran over it!

I was flying out two days later so had to just accept it. In fairness, the glass was good condition, but the barrel was a mess, and both shutter speed and aperture rings were very sloppy and the focusing was almost unusably stiff. I buy a lot of used gear, but I've not used Adorama since.

 

[BillBingham2]

Being on the down side of the Great Recession and Jobless Recovery I haven't purchased anything in years.

What I have seen and read about here is that every time Helen gets wind of a problem she does her best to fix it. I have yet to hear anyone saying they were not happy with her efforts or how it turned out.

I have no idea if other companies employ (and empower) folks to listen for issues with customers on this or other forum, but I'm they should.

I'm not employed by Adorama or any other camera store/site, it's Bartlett & West for the past month and I hope for the next fifteen or twenty years!

Helen is good people and the fact that Adorama management seems to have empowered her to fix issues. To me, fixing issues is the measure of a good store. As long as they keep Helen working her magic, Adorama is in that small grouping.

B2

 

[brusby]

. . . I guess it's a matter of economics; if every single item was photographed, the photographer's time would need to be added onto the price payable by every customer.

True. But to be fair, the current system of buying items without actually being able to see them imposes on buyers costs which are hidden or at least somewhat obscure and difficult to quantify in advance. I'm talking about the time and $ lost each time an item has to be returned because it did not meet expectations.

 

[HelenOster]

True. But to be fair, the current system of buying items without actually being able to see them imposes on buyers costs which are hidden or at least somewhat obscure and difficult to quantify in advance. I'm talking about the time and $ lost each time an item has to be returned because it did not meet expectations.

As I noted above; photographs can be supplied upon request - always best to email me: Helen@adorama.com. I can also put you in contact with someone from the used department if you need to ask specific questions about a unit.

 

[HelenOster]

.......every time Helen gets wind of a problem she does her best to fix it. I have yet to hear anyone saying they were not happy with her efforts or how it turned out.

.............Helen is good people and the fact that Adorama management seems to have empowered her to fix issues. To me, fixing issues is the measure of a good store. As long as they keep Helen working her magic, Adorama is in that small grouping.

B2

Thank you! 🙂🙂

 

[kkdanamatt]

The average RFF buyer, including myself, is not the average customer of KEH, B+H, and Adorama. We probably know more about the items that we are buying than anyone at those stores.
Their employees and policies are designed to turn a maximum profit.
That's why they all allow easy returns and full refunds.
It's so much cheaper to do that than actually inspect, describe and photograph each item before the sale.
Years ago, KEH with King Grant at the helm, was ultra-conservative in their grading system. Not so today.
B+H and Adorama never achieved a high degree of accuracy in evaluating used gear.
That's not a priority for them because it's such a small percentage of their overall sales volume.

 

[analogangler]

I wish I had known about Helen a couple days ago:

I recently (finally, excitedly) ordered a Mamiya 7 and 65mm f/4 lens from Adorama. Apparently by the time the order went through, the lens had already sold (sigh), and the order was "on hold" because of this. I had no idea how long the system would wait to figure that out (until another identical lens shows up? Never, since each item is a separate catalog no.?) so I called, was sent to about 3 different people on the phone, tried to find out if they might have another one, but the system said no so the answer must be no, and finally just had the lens cancelled from the order.

At the same time, I realized they had an external battery adapter in stock, so I asked to add that and 3 spare batteries to the order... they said they couldn't add it to the existing order but could start a new order...okay, fine.

Battery adapter showed up and turns out it's for a Mamiya 645AF. I put an e-mail into the general customer service form on the site to see how to proceed, so we'll see what happens.

Helen - thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread, and on a holiday weekend no less, it's good to know there are real people working there still, and I'll be sure contact you directly in the future if need be.

On the plus side - another 65mm lens came up and I managed to purchase it this time. It came in the mail, faster than expected, and the lens itself is in the E+ condition described, though the hood is slightly damaged - not enough for me to bother sending it back. Now if the rain will just quit so I can go out and run a test roll...

 

[Lucadomi]

I had few bad experiences with Adorama. I had the impression they were trying to sell defective equipment. Prefer B&H but I usually go there to see what they have. KHE is good but you only have two weeks to test the equipment.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

I think it is probably trickier to be in the used camera business now than 10 years ago. Remember? You used to have to peruse the tiny print in the back pages of Shutterbug. . . I know some of you remember the drill. And local prices, say in San Francisco, were totally independent of prices in NYC or of the prices in the back of Shutterbug.

The thing about KEH these days (and B&H and Adorama for that matter) is that they now have a funny relationship with eBay and the rest of the on-line used equipment world. The way I see it, KEH and their ilk basically create the used gear marketplace. That is to say, when you see the price of an FM2 in Ex+ condition at KEH, that is the risk-free price (or the maximum I would be willing to pay) for a particular piece of used gear. Why risk-free? Because KEH, in my experience at least, is pretty good about standing behind their gear. That doesn't mean that they never make mistakes, or mislabel something esoteric, but in general you can always call them within a reasonable time period and ship equipment back to them without much fuss.

But if I am a seller, there is no way I will sell to KEH. Far better to list my stuff on e-Bay, or post it for sale here using KEH's prices as a benchmark. How much is that FM2 worth? Well I don't even have to think about it because KEH and eBay's recently completed auctions have done my valuation work for me. So I can cover the spread between "wholesale" (which is what KEH pays for its gear) and retail (which is what they sell it for, or where the top of the market is for an eBay sale). But if there are thousands of gear-heads like me making the same calculation, what sort of product do you think is making its way to KEH? EBay is available to all of us as sellers, and those prices can creep right up to retail.

In my experience, NYC gear gets used hard. B&H, Adorama -- their stuff often comes from pros and it can have some dings. In my experience, an Adorama Ex+ is approximately KEH Bgn. That's just what the gear's dings and dents say

Ben