Adorama and the infinite let down.

[B-9]

Hey gang! Back again for a quick, but respectful rant.

I'm sure I need not warn to many of you of the gross inaccuracies hidden amongst Adorama's used dept. it's mind boggling!

Now here is my consensus, "E-,V,G" generally mean your entering into a lottery in which you may receive an item in any condition between "E-" and "F,X" (for parts). Regardless of which of those initial 3 conditions you actually ordered. It is actually rather uncommon (it does happen) to receive an item in equal or better condition than claimed.

Why so much variance in claims in condition? I'm convinced a lot of "Techs" rating this gear at the ground level, are just plain inexperienced. I won't go any further on that...

I've received items from great working order, to missing pieces and severe damage.

Of course when I order an item in parts condition, I don't go complaining about it.

But when I do buy something of a higher grades (E-,V,G) I do expect a level of accuracy, and well, a complete item conforming to a description.

I'm just a bit buggered by the inconvenience of losing shipping (although props for included return labels!) and spending more time watching tracking or checking paypal for a refund.

I know Helen will proly stop by, can we expect any updates in the used dept? Maybe a higher level of hands on inspection? A more consistent rating of items?
Anything in the pipeline for us bargain shoppers?



Again, I'm not trying to down Adorama, they have great customer service and buying new is as smooth as the next store. Which is why (after multiple sour apples) I KEEP coming back 😉 Glutton for punishment? Or desperate for what I ordered!

What do you guys think, experiences, comments!?

 

[newspaperguy]

?? My only experience (good) with them has been buying new.

 

[Sparrow]

... don't you just hate consumerism and modern commercial practice?

Not to mention this idea that ...


... double line spacing will somehow add



more weight to one's opinions ... I know I do

 

[Calzone]

I have to agree with B-9. I live in NYC so I see the used gear at Adorama in person. The grading system is a crap shoot, realize that because I live in NYC and can inspect the gear in person I have an advantage, and sometimes I find mispricings due to their loose grading system in my favor. My attitude when I go there now is, "Do I feel lucky?"

Lately though I have found their grading system to have degraded even further. Some of the stuff being offered needs to be rated "J" for junk.

Anyways, it is good that I already built out my kits, and I don't really long for further gear.

Cal

 

[kxl]

I have to agree with B-9. I live in NYC so I see the used gear at Adorama in person. The grading system is a crap shoot, realize that because I live in NYC and can inspect the gear in person I have an advantage, and sometimes I find mispricings due to their loose grading system in my favor. My attitude when I go there now is, "Do I feel lucky?"

Lately though I have found their grading system to have degraded even further. Some of the stuff being offered needs to be rated "J" for junk.

Anyways, it is good that I already built out my kits, and I don't really long for further gear.

Cal

Have you personally found the same to be true for used gear at B&H? I've always been hesitant to buy used gear at either B&H or Adorama, and found that for used gear, KEH seems to be a better option. I have no hesitation buying new gear from either B&H or Adorama.

 

[Kwesi]

Given the very healthy mark up on used items,
there is really no reason to buy from an outfit that can't be bothered to take a picture of the actual product you are buying. This is especially true for bodies, lenses and expensive (over $100) accessories.

 

[x-ray]

I experienced a great deal of inconsistency with B&H. I've purchased several 8&8+ rated items and been very pleased. I purchased a nikon AIS 20mm f2.8 manual focus this year and had to return it. The paint was worn through in many places and the rest of the paint looked like it had been scraped off. The focusing helix was worn so badly the lens wobbled in the helix. Also the aperture clicks were so rough you almost had to force the aperture. B&H cheerfully sent a prepaid label with an appology. Later I received a call from customer service. Very good B&H. They refunded even my shipping.

KEH is another story. I e been a customer of KEH since day one when they were in an old house on Spring St in Atlanta. I always felt they were conservative in rating gear. I understand that Ming Grant the original owner sold KEH this year or last. Out of the past hot dozen purchases I've had to return 3. Two lenses E had obvious impact damage and optical performance of one revealed optical damage. The 3rd was a 400 f3.5 Nikkor in BGN grade that had long deep circular scratches in the front element that would effect performance. Also the focus was sloppy and loose and the aperture clicks worn out. The customer service person said they reviewed grading early this year and may have changed the standards.

 

[stompyq]

Got to agree with B-9. Went to buy a Pentax 6x7 body from them in bargain condition. It was beatup (I knew it would be) but was completely broken. The guy at the counter couldn't get the shutter to trip, shutter dial spinning freely etc etc. Parts camera at best. I've found B&H used to be a lot better at grading than adorama.

 

[stompyq]

I would just stick with KEH even if there website is completely unusable now

 

[NY_Dan]

Adorama, B&H, KEH - just about every photo seller make more money on used than new. And from my perspective, all think they can show very few photos and be casual with description because customers can make returns. It is of course a huge pain to send stuff back -- and some will wait too long or just keep it. That's the biz model. B&H recently advertised for a used equip buyer -- with copy that basically read -- we want to pay the least for used gear and sell for the most. Which is why observing things in the B&H used department when customers, not very in the know, pay way to much for manual SLR's they could get on eBay for 1/4 the price is quite a show. People who can't be bothered to research or list their items for sale at the going rate -- well, that's on them. Of course places like Adorama and B&H bear no semblance to the camera stores of yore - you know, people who loved photography and were passionate about it as opposed to creating jobs for pals through a competition crunching assemblage of capital. 🙂 Here's fun game that happened to me twice at B&H -- took a few items from shelves -- waited online to have it written up -- salesman starts entering info only to tell me that while I was waiting online someone online -- as on the Internet -- bought the item that was in my hands -- and there were no others -- so I make trip to B&H and items are taken from me to give to someone else -- I asked them why they don't have stock on shelves for customers and they're like a b-dah-b-dah-b-dats all folks! 🙂

 

[HelenOster]

......
I know Helen will proly stop by, can we expect any updates in the used dept? Maybe a higher level of hands on inspection? A more consistent rating of items?

I can't comment on the ratings of the items you bought without knowing more so I think the best thing would be if you email me directly: Helen@adorama.com with relevant order numbers.

[I'm not sure whether anyone has explained to you that the used department receives on average 1500 used items to evaluate each week, and there are around 28,000 used items in the warehouse....]

 

[YYV_146]

I never buy from websites that list used gear without pictures. There are plenty of websites that sell used gear with pictures, and plenty more that have great customer service and will happily email pics.

My money is much safer with them than with B&H or Adorama...

 

[Matthew Runkel]

If this had been my experience, I would either factor "it's a crapshoot" into my initial purchase decision, or shop elsewhere.

 

[HelenOster]

I never buy from websites that list used gear without pictures. There are plenty of websites that sell used gear with pictures, and plenty more that have great customer service and will happily email pics.

My money is much safer with them than with B&H or Adorama...

The reason we do not use actual pictures is because our website isn't set up to do this; we are provided with pictures as a set of codes that we upload to the website.
However, we are certainly most happy to send a set of picures on request!

 

[Calzone]

Have you personally found the same to be true for used gear at B&H? I've always been hesitant to buy used gear at either B&H or Adorama, and found that for used gear, KEH seems to be a better option. I have no hesitation buying new gear from either B&H or Adorama.

Keith,

I also test my luck at B&H, but realize especially lately I would confer with Pro-Mone's observation below that B&H has a better/tighter rating system than Adorama. Like Adorama sometimes I get very lucky and find mispricings that are in my favor at B&H.

In January of this year I found a chrome non 6-bit version of a 90 Macro Elmare boxed at B&H for $1799.00. In this case the lens was in true "9" condition. I also purchased the macro adapter, but later returned it. Generally these 90 Macros are never priced below $2k and the early chrome versions are sold at a premium. This is a very sharp high performance lens that renders portraits nicely, but understand this is also a great-great landscape lens. A very lucky find.

Another trophy find at B&H was my AIS version of the Noct-Nikkor which I bought for only $2.5K. I miss this lens, but I recently did a flat trade with a friend for a boxed 35 Lux ASPH Pre-FLE after using the Noct-Nikkor for about 5 years.

At Adorama I bought a chrome M4 that cosmetically was in "E" condition but was rated as "F" condition for $499.00. Basically this M4 was a shelf queen that was unused for decades and it featured an original "L" seal (sold as "F" condition because of stiff film advance and slow shutter speeds). I sent it off to Sherry for an overhaul, shot it for a year to break it in and then sold it to a friend as a "killer deal."

Another steal at Adorama was a Rollie 3.5 that I paid $999.00 for that was another shelf queen that needed service. I couldn't even get a roll of film through it and it consistantly jammed on every exposure. I did my research before returning it and discovered that it was a "Whiteface" so I sent it off to get Fleenored and upgraded with a Maxwell screen. Basically now I have a truely great Rollie that is highly collectable for no money that was just overhauled by a factory trained tech.

Another amazing deal at Adorama was this 1954 M3-DS that had been just factory serviced by Leica Germany. Basically I bought a like new factory fresh M3-DS for $1399.00 that had a brand new "L" seal. I was told that even the prism was resilvered by Leica, the curtains looked new, but the camera was kinda stiff and loud like a new camera that needs breaking in. I ended up loosing this remarkable M3-DS in a trade with an art dealer where I secure two vintage Bruce Davidson prints from his Welsh Miner series. (One print is the little girl in the grave yard and the other print is the little boy with the stroller and dolls).

A year went by and I got back the M3-DS from the art dealer in a loan sharking deal where I took the M3-DS and a different vintage print as my 100% interest payment. Just last month I sold this M3 to yet another friend. Funny thing is that my friend Brian went to Adorama with his new M3 to get a lens and my friend Angel at Adorama recognized the camera and asked Brian, "Where did you get that camera." LOL. Seems like this M3-DS will somehow will always be my camera.

The moral of the stories here is that there were some deals of a lifetime, but now somehow quality has shifted in a bad way I say at Adorama, B&H and at KEH. Like I said above, I have already luckily built out all my kits and don't long for any gear.

Cal

 

[B-9]

Helen, sent you an email with my latest ordeal.

 

[B-9]

Cal, sounds like some killer deals! Mail a little of that luck over here will ya!?
Thanks for chiming in!

 

[Timmyjoe]

Have you personally found the same to be true for used gear at B&H? I've always been hesitant to buy used gear at either B&H or Adorama, and found that for used gear, KEH seems to be a better option. I have no hesitation buying new gear from either B&H or Adorama.

Wow, we all have different experiences. I've been dealing with B&H since back in 1992 when I used to live in the city. Loved stopping by there early Sunday mornings. Before buying used, I usually call, talk to one of the guys, have them pull the gear and look it over, then make the purchase. It's not 100%, but I have rarely been dissatisfied. Not had the same luck with Adorama and finally stopped doing business with them.

Had an extremely frustrating experience with KEH recently, and after talking with one of the managers about it, I don't think I will be dealing with them on anything other than incidentals (like diopters or focus screens). The manager told me that all their used gear is inspected when it arrives, and then it is warehoused. When you buy from them, the item is pulled from the warehouse and shipped. It is not inspected or checked, just shipped. That's how a camera that they advertised as working perfectly with all shutter speeds "spot on", turned out to have a frozen shutter. Back when they acquired the camera, it was working fine, but sitting on the shelf for a number of months or years, and the shutter froze up. They would have saved me quite a bit of headache and hassle, and wasted time, if they had checked the camera before shipping it to me.

The other thing KEH is doing now is advertising groups of items. If you buy an FM2n for example, from B&H, each individual item (camera) has a specific stock number, and a specific rating and notes. So if you call them and say I am interested in item number #XXXXXXX, they can pull it, check it, confirm the description in the listing, and sell it to you. At KEH, they list cameras in groups, again I'll use FM2n as an example. You want to buy an FM2n in EX condition, they have that item listed, but when you call them to ask about it, they cannot give you specific information on the camera they would sell you because they randomly take them from stock in the warehouse, they may have a small or large group of those EX condition FM2n cameras, and they will randomly remove one from the warehouse and ship it to you on purchase. They take the items in, grade them, and store them in groups, which is quite different than how they do it at B&H.

Just my observations and experiences.

Best,
-Tim

 

[daveleo]

.......
🙂 Here's fun game that happened to me twice at B&H -- took a few items from shelves -- waited online to have it written up -- salesman starts entering info only to tell me that while I was waiting online someone online -- as on the Internet -- bought the item that was in my hands -- and there were no others -- so I make trip to B&H and items are taken from me to give to someone else -- .... 🙂

😱The mind boggles !!! That's quite a story there.😱

 

[Ranchu]

I used to wonder why there was such junk in the used cases at my local camera store. I finally figured out that the sales people were motivated to take junk in on trade in for high commission new digital gear.