Agfa Isolette with Apotar lens

[Fuchs]

Well, I'm being offered ($35) a like new Agfa Isolette with an Apotar 4.5/85 lens instead of the more common Agnar. The shutter sounds accurate. I have already one with the Agnar, but never used it because the shutter is dead stuck. I have read somewhere else (photo.net maybe?) the CLA/repair procedure, but must confess I'm too lazy to do it.

So, what are the differences between the Agnar and Apotar lenses? Is one better than the other?


Thank you in advance,

 

[Jerry Thirsty]

Yes, the Apotar is better than the Agnar. And $35 is a good price.

 

[Fuchs]

Thanks Jerry,
Are they different optical designs?

 

[chippy]

Are they different optical designs?

the short answer they are the same... in as much as they are both triplets but thats where the simularity ends. Agnar was by the time the popular isolettes came to be in the (lets say so i dont have to look the dates up) 40-50s ,not including the pre war with some different lenses again, were there bottom of the range offering. actually since their inception i would hazard a guess and say they were agfa's bottom of the range lens, however i might add they were a mainstay for many years (decades?) and so one can in that regard consider them quite succesfull. vaule for money! remember agfa catered to ordinary everyday point and shoot market as well and mostly this lens falls into that catergory, the apotar is a step up

the apotar was and is a much better lens in many (nah all, all the lens aberations) respects. i would suspect without measuring them the air spacings are different between elements and more importantly the type a glass used is different. nothing wrong with playing around with old cameras and lenses and getting a feel of how it was once upon a time, but if your after better quality in that particular make and model you would try at least the apotar, of course then there is the solinar 😉.

 

[Jerry Thirsty]

Bunch of info on Isolettes here:

http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/AnscAgfa.html#Iso2

 

[Fuchs]

Hi Chippy, thank you for your insights on the Apotar. I'd already given my yes (and $$$ of course) on the camera, so it would be arriving tomorrow or saturday. I plan to test it during the weekend. I have no previous experience with mf folders, as I said I have another Isolette with the Agnar lens, but it just stands unused with a badly stuck shutter on a shelf. So I will not be able to compare the two lenses performances.

I'm gonna give it a try with Fuji Reala... should I expect some fogging from the rear red window when advancing the film in full light or better advance in semidark?

thanks in advance again

 

[Fuchs]

Bunch of info on Isolettes here:

http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/AnscAgfa.html#Iso2

thank you Jerry, great deal of info on that page

 

[VictorM.]

Before you use the Isolette, you may want to check the bellows. Some of them are notoriously prone to light leaks. The red window should have a sliding cover. Uncover only when advancing the film and fogging shouldn't be a problem.

 

[chippy]

Hi Chippy, thank you for your insights on the Apotar. I'd already given my yes (and $$$ of course) on the camera, so it would be arriving tomorrow or saturday. I plan to test it during the weekend. I have no previous experience with mf folders, as I said I have another Isolette with the Agnar lens, but it just stands unused with a badly stuck shutter on a shelf. So I will not be able to compare the two lenses performances.

I'm gonna give it a try with Fuji Reala... should I expect some fogging from the rear red window when advancing the film in full light or better advance in semidark?

thanks in advance again

the rear door/red window has a closure on it so be sure to close it after each wind on..fogging usually doesnt present itself as a problem due to that, all sorts of other light leaks might!. out of habit I usually turn my back to the sun while advancing

before you put film in it give the bellows a light test in a darkroom (at night if need be in a normal room but very black/dark) with a small torch (or like) carefully without causing any damage trying to reach inside the bellows with it to show any leaks. if the bellows havnt been replaced odds are they are going to need it, not many dont as you will find out. also check if the front lens turns (focuses) smoothly. if you do a search you will find a bunch of posts relating to common things that usually need doing on these before they are good to go

 

[Solinar]

Bunch of info on Isolettes here:

http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/AnscAgfa.html#Iso2

For some reason - I recognize that web page. I'll try to break it into two or three web pages this winter.

By the way, I'm two days away from attempting to remove the original bellows from an Ansco Super Speedex that I have and have camerabellows.com make yet another for me.

After that all my folders with the exception of my Perkeo II will have had the bellows replaced.

 

[Windscale]

For some reason - I recognize that web page. I'll try to break it into two or three web pages this winter.

By the way, I'm two days away from attempting to remove the original bellows from an Ansco Super Speedex that I have and have camerabellows.com make yet another for me.

After that all my folders with the exception of my Perkeo II will have had the bellows replaced.

Solinar,

I have just had the bellows of my Super Isolette replaced. Mine also came from camerabellows in Birmingham, England. I think even if the original bellows in any isolette is still light tight, they won't be so for long. And the only solution would be to replace them.

Back to the main point of this thread. The Apotar is a very capable lens. I have got an Agnar but have not put it on any camera to test. But it should also be a respectable performer as it is a triplet and same design as the Apotar. I wouldn't say the quality of the glass is inferior to that of the Apotar as I did not think they had so many different grades of glass at the time.

 

[chippy]

Back to the main point of this thread. The Apotar is a very capable lens. I have got an Agnar but have not put it on any camera to test. But it should also be a respectable performer as it is a triplet and same design as the Apotar. I wouldn't say the quality of the glass is inferior to that of the Apotar as I did not think they had so many different grades of glass at the time.

i assure you they had different types of glass---the glass used in lenses varied widely from the vary earlist years in photography....

clearly the angar lens is of different quality and design to apotar or what would be the point of Agfa having both and selling the Anga cheaper, not to mention the results from the lenses speak for themselves. all triplets arnt exactly the same..in make up or performance

 

[Windscale]

i assure you they had different types of glass---the glass used in lenses varied widely from the vary earlist years in photography....

clearly the angar lens is of different quality and design to apotar or what would be the point of Agfa having both and selling the Anga cheaper, not to mention the results from the lenses speak for themselves. all triplets arnt exactly the same..in make up or performance

I am sure you know what you are saying and are right. I will one day put up the agnar and try it out. I have seen some good pics by others using this lens. But as far as the Apotar is concerned I am sure it is a worthy performer. I use mine quite frequently.

 

[chippy]

I am sure you know what you are saying and are right. I will one day put up the agnar and try it out. I have seen some good pics by others using this lens. But as far as the Apotar is concerned I am sure it is a worthy performer. I use mine quite frequently.

no problem
many folk use the apotar and are very satified with the results, less so with the agnar....i prefer the solinar but thats not to say i dont apreaciate the apotar for what it is (its like comparing apples to oranges)..a fine triplet lens that produces very good results within its limitations....just like the solinar has its own limitations

 

[Fuchs]

Thanks Victor, Chippy and Solinar, the seller says the bellows is ok, in like new condition. I asked him on the phone to test for lighttightness with the flash method I saw elsewhere. Shortly after he confirmed the bellows ok.
I have no reason to doubt him, but will obviously double check when the cam arrives.

He also said the red window sliding cover is in place and slides in and out, and stays put, correctly.

OK, it looks like if all the stars align, I'll be posting the results after this weekend.

 

[Windscale]

no problem
many folk use the apotar and are very satified with the results, less so with the agnar....i prefer the solinar but thats not to say i dont apreaciate the apotar for what it is (its like comparing apples to oranges)..a fine triplet lens that produces very good results within its limitations....just like the solinar has its own limitations

I like the Solinar as well, especially that one on the Super Isolette. I am convinced that it is better than those on the ordinary Isolettes. The Solinars are no doubt very sharp. But I like the Apotar for its more creamy effect and shadow details. They both have their pluses and minuses. I much prefer the Apotar to the Novar for the same reason.

Sorry for sidetracking from this thread. We all wait to see your pics, Fuchs.

 

[Fuchs]

Sorry for sidetracking from this thread. We all wait to see your pics, Fuchs.

No sidetracking at all: pure learning for me!

 

[Solinar]

For $35 - a like new Isolette II with a 80/4.5 Apotar is an excellent starter camera.

The Agfa Super Isolette is a totally different build. It's totally top shelve and as such has quite a few modern features. So, the Super generally sells for $250 on up depending on condition.

 

[FallisPhoto]

Well, I'm being offered ($35) a like new Agfa Isolette with an Apotar 4.5/85 lens instead of the more common Agnar. The shutter sounds accurate. I have already one with the Agnar, but never used it because the shutter is dead stuck. I have read somewhere else (photo.net maybe?) the CLA/repair procedure, but must confess I'm too lazy to do it.

So, what are the differences between the Agnar and Apotar lenses? Is one better than the other?


Thank you in advance,

Frankly, the Agnar sucks, while the Apotar is comparable to some of the other manufacturer's better triplets -- let's say it's not as good as a Novar, but it's better than a Radionar. Agnars and Apotars are both triplets though.

A common problem with Apotars (and pretty much all of Agfa's other lens offerings, come to think of it) is directly attributable to the horrible choice of lubricant that Agfa used. The lube hardens and polymerizes, forming chains of plastic and freezing the focus adjustment dead. Any Agfa that is still in operating condition can fairly safely be assumed to have been disassembled at some point and the grease has been cleaned out of the focusing threads. This means it has been reassembled and the front (focusing) lens element has been adjusted for focus at infinity. Only God knows how good a job the previous owner did at that. Anyway, this is why you read so many differences of opinion on Apotars, some people really liking them while others are disappointed. I'm convinced that it's due to varying degrees of success in collimating the lenses upon reassembly. Any time I get an Agfa, provided the focus is working, the first thing I do is readjust the focus, using a piece of ground glass.

Next problem is the bellows material. If yours has the original bellows, the odds are nearly 100% that it has light leaks. You can patch the leaks, but this is at best a temporary measure. You'll still have the original vinyl material, it will still suck, and sooner or later it is going to leak again. The only serious option is to replace the bellows. You used to be able to get "new old stock" replacement bellows that were cheap, but those disappeared years ago. These days, you will have to have a set of bellows made, make them yourself, or harvest a bellows from another camera (if you go that last route, I'd go for a Kodak 66, since they are cheap, the bellows is the only really well-made part of that particular camera, and it is relatively easy to get them out intact).

However, once you have the bellows problem taken care of, the focus is adjusted, the shutter has been cleaned and the green grease has been replaced, an Isolette with an Apotar is a pretty darned good shooter. The Solinars are better, but not by a whole lot.

 

[chippy]

By the way, I'm two days away from attempting to remove the original bellows from an Ansco Super Speedex that I have and have camerabellows.com make yet another for me.

After that all my folders with the exception of my Perkeo II will have had the bellows replaced.

be sure to take a few pics along the way Andrew, it will be interesting to see whats involved with these guys, not that i am planning to change mine anytime soon *fingers crossed*

so does that mean you have changed the bellows in your Bessa II ? how did that go.

hey also is that a stock photo of the Agfa Auto 66 from somewhere or do you have one..i'm guessing not or we would have heard you talking about it hehe