Anyone prefer their LTM to their M?

[shortstop]

This thread has the potential to cause me a little anxiety. 🙂 Some days ago I purchased a near mint IIIf/Summicron 50/2 from a German camera shop having never shot with one. It should arrive on Monday (currently Friday here in Sydney). Hmmmm, have I done the right thing??? At the same time I've been musing over a Titanium Non-TTL M6 but chose the IIIf really on its small size. The M6 will happen another day... I have a number of cameras - film/digital and a couple of rangefinders, no Leicas and my rationale on this purchase (as far as rationalism comes into it...) was/is: - I love to be 'closer to' or more immersed in the shooting experience (I love using my 4x5 a lot more than my D700, depending on the situation) and the little Leica will certainly slow things down, - it's physically tiny and will probably spend a lot of time in a jacket pocket on my travels (out with the little Fuji X10), - it represents what I consider to be quite a technical achievement in its day and - it is, to me a thing of great beauty - rather like an old Patek Philippe, but that's probably more emotional than rational. Perhaps I'm a little drawn to quirkiness. No doubt I'm a bit of a sentimental fool but I suppose I can sell it if needs be. I'll put a few rolls through it asap and report back on my experiences in the appropriate thread. Great read and great insight - many thanks! Fingers crossed I'll get some sleep between now and Monday. Cheers, David

No anxiety. Screw mount Leicas are wonderful. I think that if you have chosen IIIf and that fantastic collapsile summicron, you are right. Tactile experience with a barnack leica is unique. They are only a bit slow, certainly slower than M sisters, but not too much. I also shot in 4x5 and understand what you mean. Be happy. Let us know when your german pure mechanical csmera is arrived there in Sidney (I'm in Rome-Italy) and, if you want, post some images of it. The Patek-Philippe analogy is right, but IIIf takes also photos...

 

[David Hughes]

The poll shows that 60% of people are as happy or happier with an LTM. That gives you pretty good odds 🙂

Mind you it also shows that 70+% are as happy or happier with an M.

Hi,

So Leica owners can't go wrong as 130+% of us like them... ;-)

Regards, David

 

[shortstop]

Hi, So Leica owners can't go wrong as 130+% of us like them... ;-) Regards, David

Statistic bias😏 applied to leicaworld

 

[David Hughes]

Statistic bias😏 applied to leicaworld

Of course, that's what statistics are for; that and gross over simplification...

Regards, David

 

[stillshunter]

People here are mixing up ltm cameras and ltm lenses. Which did the OP mean for this thread?

Hey Raid. Mate as the OP I meant LTM vs. M 'cameras' - sorry I should have been more specific albeit in this subject folder. Having said that, I have found there does seem to be a very different LTM to M 'experience' to which the lens lends itself. A differing overall philosophy..that Barnack bent where size really mattered.

Irrespective of my vagueness, this has been such an interesting thread - THANKS ALL! Thoroughly constructive and no petty bickering (I haven't jinxed it I hope).

@deldridg, David, mate, another guy from Oz. I got back into this malarky with a IIIf and Summicron - sourced and serviced by YYe. You'll have a ball it's an absolute gem of a camera (it'll slow you down and breathe life back into the fundamentals of photography)….and even more so with an SBOOI…trust me! 😀 I have a Bessa R3a coming to complement the IIIf (thanks Juan!) and we'll see it how it pans out. Jeez, I might like it so much that I could sell you my hard-found SBOOI and other bits and pieces 😉

Either way, after it arrives I'll be better informed enough to vote.

If I compare my old life with the M2 (QL kit, M6 finder) to the life I currently have with the IIIf, the Barnack wins by a convincing nose. So let's see if there's some parity with the Bessa.

 

[Dralowid]

I would suggest there is a small element of bias in this thread, as one who has used an ltm camera since 1965 I am biased.

Buying a new M6TTL didn't really change that bias, buying a Ricoh GRI did and so did buying a Nex...each to his own

Ah well, it comes to us all

 

[Monochrom]

Hi, very interesting...my first leica was a IIIf...loved it also the elmar 5cm that came with it was superb.

After several years of having only m mount cmaeras i received last monday a iiif...

Wow...i can´t find enough reasons to prefer the M over this iiif...the m is larger heavier, the iiif just fits in every pocket and it´s better for slow speeds...it´s lighter, smaller and does the same thing.

I always think leica should do a cloth shutter and manual advance digital camera...like a III model.

 

[stillshunter]

Hi, very interesting...my first leica was a IIIf...loved it also the elmar 5cm that came with it was superb.

After several years of having only m mount cmaeras i received last monday a iiif...

Wow...i can´t find enough reasons to prefer the M over this iiif...the m is larger heavier, the iiif just fits in every pocket and it´s better for slow speeds...it´s lighter, smaller and does the same thing.

I always think leica should do a cloth shutter and manual advance digital camera...like a III model.

Hey Monochrom, nice to see someone else with the IIIf and sporting the same two lens line-up of 28 and 50mm - albeit mine is the CV28/3.5 and 'Cron 50 (both LTM). I just hope the LTM lenses adapt well to the R3A arriving soon - so I might have my lazy modern man's kit (Bessa) and the control freak's kit (IIIf) with the same two lens arsenal.

With the SBOOI, the Barnack addresses the pokey VF. The one modification I wish I could do to the IIIf is something to improve the loading. I'm not so fussed about cutting the leader (though be even happier if I didn't) but maybe an M3-style hinged door would help the process. No big deal but compared to the modern cameras this is a drawback….or more accurately an advance I'd like to be able to retrospectively address.

You are 100% right about the feel of the IIIf in-hand though. I have experienced nothing else like it in either the digital on film worlds.

 

[raid]

All this talk about the IIIf makes me think of mine.

 

[stillshunter]

All this talk about the IIIf makes me think of mine.

I hope it is still sitting on the shelf just waiting for your attention Raid….you did not sell it did you sir?

This is shaping up to be a nice weekend to shoot a roll in a Barnack I reckon….whichever hemisphere you might be in.

 

[raid]

No, I stopped selling equipment a while ago, and I bought stuff instead. The IIIf and the Standard Leica work well with wide angle lenses.

 

[stillshunter]

No, I stopped selling equipment a while ago, and I bought stuff instead. The IIIf and the Standard Leica work well with wide angle lenses.

Great news Raid. Look forward to hearing how the IIIf performed for you over the weekend.

 

[Mike-D]

The Barnacks are fine for 50mm, but everything else requires an external finder. The M's nice bright viewfinder with the framelines and integrated RF make them much easier to use for me. Many of the older external finders are hard to use with glasses.

Mike

 

[Scrambler]

The one modification I wish I could do to the IIIf is something to improve the loading. I'm not so fussed about cutting the leader (though be even happier if I didn't) but maybe an M3-style hinged door would help the process. No big deal but compared to the modern cameras this is a drawback….or more accurately an advance I'd like to be able to retrospectively address.

Have you tried no leader at all? Not as straightforward to load as a long leader but it does work better than a short leader.

 

[raid]

The Barnacks are fine for 50mm, but everything else requires an external finder. The M's nice bright viewfinder with the framelines and integrated RF make them much easier to use for me. Many of the older external finders are hard to use with glasses.

Mike

I have no difficulties at all with using the Canon 19/3.5 on a ltm Leica with a 20mm finder. It makes composition even more fun.

 

[Monochrom]

stillshunter 😉

I must tell you i´ve changed my biogon 28 for an orion-15 & a red scale elmar!!!


And about cutting the leader off???, back then when i had my first iiif i just ended up using my teeth just like opening a fried potatoes bag!

Hey Monochrom, nice to see someone else with the IIIf and sporting the same two lens line-up of 28 and 50mm - albeit mine is the CV28/3.5 and 'Cron 50 (both LTM). I just hope the LTM lenses adapt well to the R3A arriving soon - so I might have my lazy modern man's kit (Bessa) and the control freak's kit (IIIf) with the same two lens arsenal.

With the SBOOI, the Barnack addresses the pokey VF. The one modification I wish I could do to the IIIf is something to improve the loading. I'm not so fussed about cutting the leader (though be even happier if I didn't) but maybe an M3-style hinged door would help the process. No big deal but compared to the modern cameras this is a drawback….or more accurately an advance I'd like to be able to retrospectively address.

You are 100% right about the feel of the IIIf in-hand though. I have experienced nothing else like it in either the digital on film worlds.

 

[Keith]

I like both equally I think and these days I have one of each .... an M2 and a very pretty little black paint Leica ll. If push came to shove I think the M2 would go first.

 

[ssmc]

The "fondle-factor" of an LTM (I have a very nice IIIf RDST) is pretty much unsurpassed - they just look and feel and sound wonderful - if you "get" mechanical things; if you don't, it will probably seem like a quaint anachronism. All those knobs and dials and levers... I've never owned any camera that had such a ratio of "play-time" to shooting time.

But... in the end cameras are for taking pictures... *sigh*... and while I can deal with the squinty VF, separate RF/VF eyepieces, and no meter, I still find loading the IIIf a somehow jarring experience compared to an M (let alone a swing-back camera). For that reason alone I would be reluctant to take it on vacation with me, unless it was maybe as a 3rd camera. I wouldn't have any such reservations with say an M6.

 

[Davidhel]

My vote was for the LTM... I've been using them now for over 20 years and the black III has been my primary daily camera for the last 6 years or so. I've always liked the idea of trying an 'M' but they have always been out of reach price wise...and as I pretty much exclusively use 50's and 35's the multiple viewfinder of the M is of less appeal to me. With the Leitz external 50mm and 35mm finder the LTM is transformed into a totally different shooting experience!

 

[Mike-D]

I have no difficulties at all with using the Canon 19/3.5 on a ltm Leica with a 20mm finder. It makes composition even more fun.

I have to agree that with lenses like ultra wides the LTMs work particularly well. The IIIf was always my favorite camera for the 15/4.5 Heliar