Being into watches - it's just not the same.

[NickTrop]

I will now impart watch wisdom on you all.

1. A men's watch is essential part of a man's wardrobe. I would sooner leave the house without pants than without a watch.

2. You should own more than one watch, just like you own more than one pair of shoes that are worn on different occasions. You wouldn't wear sneakers with a tux, etc. You may take your time (years)
establishing your watch collection. Start with a solid daily wear. Then move on to dress watch. Then have fun putting together your casual/sports watch collection.

These are the watches you should own:

1. A "daily wear".
This is on your wrist most of the time. You wear this to work. It should have a sturdy steel bracelet, be waterproof to I'd say 100 meters. Mine is a Citizen Eco Drive AT (which picks up a time signal so it is perfectly accurate).

2. One or more "Sports Watches"
These should be automatics. These are watches you wear with jeans, casual wear, etc. They can be whimsical or fun. I own several of these -- A Seiko ReCraft (reimagined 60's/70's design) A Parnis (quality Chinese "homage" watches) that resembles an IWC Portuguese I like. A Parnis Skeleton hand-winder.

These are rotated depending on mood. I wear one of these on the weekends and Fridays (dress down) at work.

3. A man's dress watch.
This is when you're wearing a suit, tux are "dressed". These usually don't get much wear but are essential. All men should own one. This should be as THIN as possible so it disappears into your shirt sleeve. It should be very discreet, small by today's sports watch standards. No complications. Not even a seconds hand. It should have a white or black dial and a BLACK (only!) leather (ONLY -- no steel bracelet) strap. "Perfect" dress watches are hard to find. Even the Orient Bambino to my mind is too thick as an automatic. I found the perfect dress watch. It is a Citizen Solar (pictured)

4. (Optional) A "Beater" -- for the beach, yard work -- what have you. Mine is an Orient something or other automatic.

Friends don't let friends wear battery operated quartz (other than G-Shock). Solar quartz is fine, especially for dress. Automatics or hand wound are great. There is no need to spend large dollars on Swiss made. Seiko, Orient for automatics. Citizen for solar/Eco-drive. I've never spent more than $180 on a watch. Most were around $100. Several less than $50. If you enjoy a particular style or styles pick up a Parnis homage watch on eBay. They are well-made and have great Seagull movements usually.

This is the definitive post on watches and the proper watch philosophy.

 

[Pál_K]

Excellent advice. If only we had this for cameras.

 

[Archiver]

@NickTrop - I have a similar philosophy about watches and a minimum collection. I like the idea of:

1. A daily watch which can be somewhere between sports and dress, preferably something with a bit of ruggedness and waterproofing to withstand daily wear.

2. A sports watch which is geared towards physical activity.

3. A beater.

4. A dress watch.

For the daily watch, there is a huge range of watches that suit any budget, from expensive Swiss watches to smartwatches. It can be an Omega Aqua Terra, a Seiko 5, or a Rolex Sub/Sea-Dweller, or an Apple watch or Samsung gear. Folks with cash and a liking for horology might like a Vacheron Constantin Overseas, or a Patek Phillippe Nautilus.

Sports watches come in all shapes and sizes, and there's crossover between sports and a daily watch.

I like my watches too much to have a 'beater' that will get destroyed, but I have a couple of excellent G Shocks which fit this purpose. I also wear them in the sports and daily category, depending on the occasion. Timex is not to be sniffed at.

As for a dress watch, again there is a huge range. Anything from delightful vintage Seiko, Omega, Cyma, Longines and Rolex to modern watches like a Blancpain Villeret, Grand Seiko Snowflake, Lange & Sohne whatever, or lower in price to a Seiko Presage Cocktail (one of my favourites).

Then there's specialty watches, like chunky chronographs, massive dive watches, Seiko and Citizen land and sky watches, the list goes on and on.

If you get the characteristics right and choose carefully, you can have one watch which serves most purposes. A nice smartwatch can be your daily and sports watch. A clean Seiko 5 or Omega Aqua Terra can be daily, sports and dress. A Grand Seiko GMT Spring Drive is gorgeous, hardy and versatile. As much as I love lots of watches, I could easily wear a vintage/near vintage Rolex Sea-Dweller as my daily/sports/dress watch.

 

[Archiver]

Excellent advice. If only we had this for cameras.

This might be easier than you think, depending on the situations you shoot, image quality you want, and how much/little you are prepared to carry.

1. General purpose camera - anything from a good camera phone to a reasonable RF, SLR, DSLR or mirrorless camera.

2. A pocket camera

3. High image quality camera, anything from full frame digital to medium format film to digital Hasselblad/Fuji.

4. High performance for sports, including Sony A9, Canon 1Dx Mark whatever, Nikon D5-6whatever, Pana/Olympus flagship m43 cameras.

5. Fun.

In my case, my general purpose camera is also a pocket camera, being my Sony RX0 or Panasonic LX10. Small enough to go anywhere and has very reasonable image quality.

My high image quality camera is the Leica M9; for a while, it was the Canon 5D Mark II, but the M9 smokes it for my purposes.

My high performance sports setup is the Panasonic GH4. 10fps and liveview gives me the ability to shoot pretty well. It's not the best in low light, so if i was getting more serious about sports, I'd go with a Sony A9 or A7 III.

My fun cameras are things like the Contax T3, Fuji Natura Black, Ricoh GXR and even the Fuji X100.

 

[Emile de Leon]

Watches..
We can probably live without..

 

[NickTrop]

@NickTrop - I have a similar philosophy about watches and a minimum collection.

Archiver -- I'm glad you agree. I do like iconic designs too. I have considered having one great watch. However, there are several reasons I do not. Firstly, most are out of the price range I can comfortably afford (at least without guilt). Secondly, I like to switch things up. It's Friday. What will be my weekend watch? Third. "Cheap" watches have upped their game. Generally, the money goes into the dial and case but skimp on the band or bracelet. Mass-produced movements like the Seiko 7S26 or Myota movements found in many watches are durable and inexpensive compared to Swiss movements. "Starter" bands and bracelets are fine as those can be easily swapped out for better after market. You can't go wrong with Seiko or Orient. I am very impressed with the Citizen atomic time build quality and finishing of my daily wear. I'd put it on par with an Omega. I further agree on the Seiko Prestige and Cocktail time line. I am partial to 60's/70's aesthetic in all things (styles, music, cameras, watches, films...) The Seiko ReCraft line did a masterful job updating the look and are very affordable -- a fun wear but not for everyone.

My issue with mid-tier automatics ($300 and above) is that they will need servicing eventually, which is expensive and not cost-justified. A cheap ($80) Parnis IWC Portuguese homage is well made, hacks, hand-winds and is surprisingly nicely made. If it begins to fail, in the trash with it. I have had this watch for 7 years so I've gotten my money's worth. Don't overlook many of the Chinese watches. I have a -shocking- Franck Muller tank watch homage that was $30.

I agree that if I was to "hit the proverbial lottery", I'd go with a Grand Seiko. Stunning.

Here is a great beater. $31 Casio ana-digital. 300 ft water resisting. Back light, alarm, solid band. A tech wonder at this price range. I owned at one time but gave it away to a nephew. Might pick it up again. I miss it.

 

[David Hughes]

My experience of Omegas based on several watches and decades is that they get stolen and are expensive to replace, they are not as accurate as I'd expect and are expensive to service and when they break down they are expensive to repair; if you can find someone who will take them on.

My wife had a Seamaster and when it failed I spent a lot of time and money trying to find someone willing to repair it and was told some parts were/are unobtainable. My matching one failed a while ago and after getting one or two quotes it followed my wife's one on ebay.

I often wonder if half the sad stories I've been told when seeking repairs are true; they worry me...

The plain, boring Sekonda I acquired with an Olympus XA in a joblot for five pounds is still behaving itself and our two quartz Longines are just as good but I do like the ritual of winding the Sekonda up daily.

In many ways I feel sorry for the traditional watch makers; the Chinese can, it seems, turn out quartz ones for pennies with delivery etc included. One of them bought as a joke for me manages to lose about two or three seconds a week, measured over the last 3 or 4 weeks. That meets the chronometer standard, iirc.

Regards, David


PS (EDIT) I think gold watches, Nick, should have brown leather straps but then I like monochromatic schemes.

 

[Archiver]

My experience of Omegas based on several watches and decades is that they get stolen and are expensive to replace, they are not as accurate as I'd expect and are expensive to service and when they break down they are expensive to repair; if you can find someone who will take them on.

My wife had a Seamaster and when it failed I spent a lot of time and money trying to find someone willing to repair it and was told some parts were/are unobtainable. My matching one failed a while ago and after getting one or two quotes it followed my wife's one on ebay.

I often wonder if half the sad stories I've been told when seeking repairs are true; they worry me...

The plain, boring Sekonda I acquired with an Olympus XA in a joblot for five pounds is still behaving itself and our two quartz Longines are just as good but I do like the ritual of winding the Sekonda up daily.

Well, if you buy an expensive watch, they are going to be expensive to replace or repair. It's par for the course with anything expensive, look at Leica repair/replacement costs. Expensive watches often attract unwanted attention and thievery, too. Par for the course.



An automatic watch will never be as accurate as a quartz watch, which is partly what sent the Swiss world into panic with the quartz revolution. Even watches which are certified Swiss chronometers lose or gain a few seconds a day, and that's even influenced by how you place the watch at night. Quartz watches might gain or lose 15 seconds a months, or one second a day, depending on the movement.

 

[Archiver]

And for a bit of crossover, the titanium treatment of the new Fuji X-Pro 3 is very likely the same as used on Citizen's titanium watches, Duratect.


https://www.citizenwatch-global.com/technologies/super-titanium/

 

[kshapero]

Parnis is a hidden gem brand. I suggest their website: https://parnis.org/ for your purchase as there are now fakes of Parnis on ebay. I have had a bunch of them (real ones), as I often give them as gifts.

 

[Archiver]

Parnis is a hidden gem brand. I suggest their website: https://parnis.org/ for your purchase as there are now fakes of Parnis on ebay. I have had a bunch of them (real ones), as I often give them as gifts.

Oh, the irony of a brand that makes direct copies of Rolex, Omega, IWC and Bvlgari being faked! Hopefully, they will start to make their own designs, much like Helson did after doing a number of Omega homages. At least with Helson, they made copies of rare vintage Omegas like the original Ploprof and the Seamaster 1000.

https://www.helsonwatches.com/

 

[jawarden]

In many ways I feel sorry for the traditional watch makers; the Chinese can, it seems, turn out quartz ones for pennies with delivery etc included. One of them bought as a joke for me manages to lose about two or three seconds a week, measured over the last 3 or 4 weeks. That meets the chronometer standard, iirc.

Not really. One of the tests for a quartz chronometer is the average daily rate at 23°C and the limit is ± 0.07 sec/day, which is a half second variation per week.


If you're happy with your watch that's all that matters really. But it's an easy mistake to see a quartz watch that averages out a hundred variations during the week and still happens to nearly match the time on your computer and to think that it meets the chronometer standard when it probably wouldn't pass a chronometer test. It's not common for manufacturers to test quartz movements like yours but the chronometer certification does exist and the testing isn't trivial, involving repeated shocks, temperature and humidity variations while tracking rate stability. Cheaply manufactured quartz movements have earned their place in the market for a good reason but they're not chronometers unless tested as such.

It's a common mistake that people make with mechanical watches too, seeing a pleasing result at the end of the week and declaring the performance as equal to a chronometer when in fact that's not the case. A chronometer must meet an ISO standard while tested in different positions, temperatures, etc and many movements are simply not designed to do that but can still perform well enough for the price paid.

 

[Out to Lunch]

My experience of Omegas based on several watches and decades is that they get stolen and are expensive to replace, they are not as accurate as I'd expect and are expensive to service and when they break down they are expensive to repair; if you can find someone who will take them on.

Probably true if you happen to live in the Northern Hemisphere. Not true when you live in the Southern Hemisphere. My Omega's hour hand stopped turning...the Omega dealer in town quoted me hundreds of US Dollars in repair costs and many months of waiting. I then brought it to a local repairman who was happy to deal with the problem and a few days later I paid him something like USD 25 for his efforts. That was more than 2 years ago, and the watch runs well.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Parnis is a hidden gem brand. I suggest their website: https://parnis.org/ for your purchase as there are now fakes of Parnis on ebay. I have had a bunch of them (real ones), as I often give them as gifts

These Parnis watches are handsome! I've done the same...whenever I spent time in Geneva, Switzerland, I'd buy some relatively inexpensive watches and give them away. Twenty to thirty years later, some of the recipients are still wearing them.

 

[Paul T.]

I find the rise in price of good watches pretty depressing, a bit like the rise in the price of good guitars.

Last time I had my 64 Heuer Carrera serviced, they told me it was too rare and valuable to wear every day. So what the hell is it for, then?

I don't want to sell it, nor my 52 Telecaster, because what else could I buy that's nicer? I'm rich enough not to need the money, but not rich enough to enjoy them without paranoia!

I believe it's Pathek Philippe that started buying up their own vintage watches to artificially stimulate the market. I'd love that bubble to burst.

 

[jawarden]

...

Last time I had my 64 Heuer Carrera serviced, they told me it was too rare and valuable to wear every day. So what the hell is it for, then?
....

Wow that was terrible advice from your watchmaker. Wear that thing.

I have a chronograph with a snap-on back that offers no water protection, and no shock resistance for the balance either. So if it gets wet or I drop it it'll need a repair, and that means (for me) it's not an everyday kind of watch. But your watch has a screw-on back and shock protection, so what's not to like? It's meant to be used without worry.

 

[Pál_K]

...
Last time I had my 64 Heuer Carrera serviced, they told me it was too rare and valuable to wear every day. So what the hell is it for, then?
...

A friend of mine has a Heuer Autavia; he wears it to car club events including when he's racing and working in the pits. Unless your daily routine exposes your watch to a real risk of damage, I see no reason to avoid wearing it on occasion.

 

[Archiver]

I find the rise in price of good watches pretty depressing, a bit like the rise in the price of good guitars.

Last time I had my 64 Heuer Carrera serviced, they told me it was too rare and valuable to wear every day. So what the hell is it for, then?

I don't want to sell it, nor my 52 Telecaster, because what else could I buy that's nicer? I'm rich enough not to need the money, but not rich enough to enjoy them without paranoia!

I believe it's Pathek Philippe that started buying up their own vintage watches to artificially stimulate the market. I'd love that bubble to burst.

There's a tipping point between 'wear' and 'too rare and expensive to wear', and this is entirely up to the wearer. If I had a vintage double red Sea-Dweller, which goes for a stack of money, I'd only wear it on special occasions, and not in situations where it might be damaged. Heck, I have a lovely Omega 'baby Ploprof' in mint condition, and I hardly wear it because it's just too nice to ding up. Love that thing, though.


The increase in watch prices is a regrettable but seemingly necessary part of the industry. The higher tier brands like Patek and A Lange & Sohne are becoming more and more expensive, and what were more pedestrian luxury brands like Omega and Rolex have pretty much doubled in price in the last 10-15 years. Upper-Mmid level brands like Longines, Oris and Tissot creep up, but still have slightly more economical models.



And brands like Seiko and Citizen stratify themselves with excellent entry level watches for a few hundred or less, and have models in multiple thousands at the high end. Even Casio G Shock have a range from sub-hundred to handmade limited edition watches selling for thousands. There's a 14k solid gold G Shock soon to be released, and that's going to cost a mint.



The watch industry knows that there is a sizeable collector's market out there, and that watches are a thing of desire for many people, so they aim for models at as high a price as the market will bear.

 

[David Hughes]

Where do firms like Avia fit into this? I have a soft spot for them and a watch, of course.


I'm tempted, btw, to put our two joke watches here just to lower the tone or else give you all a laugh...


Regards, David

 

[Archiver]

TBH I'd never heard of Avia before, so I had a look at what's online. They look like beautiful watches, and really inexpensive if you want to pick one up. No idea what the movements were like, whether they were in house or standard ETA type movements. Seems like Avia was bought by Fossil, who continue to make watches with the Avia name.​

Other interesting lesser known Swiss brands are Titoni (popular in Asia), Baume et Mercier (also popular in Asia), Edox, Eterna, Glycine... there and dozens of Swiss brands past and present, all with some really interesting watches.