nonot
Well-known
I guess I'm jumping into the Leica pool here, although tentatively. I'm looking to get a body and a 50mm or maybe something a little wider. I have about 1600cdn to get something second hand and wondering what you fine folks would suggest for that price range. M4? M6? Any well-reasoned suggestions are appreciated.
b
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coelacanth
Ride, dive, shoot.
If you don't need built-in light meter, I think M2 is the best for the $. It has 35mm frame lines, and you can use the full VF for 28mm if you want to go even wider.
As for the 50mm to start with, you might want to tell us if you are into fast glasses or slower but compact ones. And if you NEED to get a Leica lens or other manufactures OK?
Either way, finding well maintained M2 will leave you a good margin for the 50mm to start off. If you want to get 35mm as well, Color-Skopar (any of the three types) is really hard to beat.
As for the 50mm to start with, you might want to tell us if you are into fast glasses or slower but compact ones. And if you NEED to get a Leica lens or other manufactures OK?
Either way, finding well maintained M2 will leave you a good margin for the 50mm to start off. If you want to get 35mm as well, Color-Skopar (any of the three types) is really hard to beat.
M6 and a voigtlander lens.
thegman
Veteran
Or Bessa cameras, a new Bessa gives Leica M7 features for the price of a battered M4.
dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
I'd agree with M6 for the meter, M2 without.
RichardB
Well-known
M6 Classic hands down!
Find one in excellent condition from one of the many Leica owners that either almost never use their equipment or are afraid to use it for fear of damage and you will find a camera that will do anything any other M will do, is the functional equivalent of the much ballyhooed MP without the price tag and will last you a long time.
The built in meter is a necessity unless one has all day to measure exposure with a hand held meter or has decided to not employee exposure readings.-Dick
Find one in excellent condition from one of the many Leica owners that either almost never use their equipment or are afraid to use it for fear of damage and you will find a camera that will do anything any other M will do, is the functional equivalent of the much ballyhooed MP without the price tag and will last you a long time.
The built in meter is a necessity unless one has all day to measure exposure with a hand held meter or has decided to not employee exposure readings.-Dick
nonot
Well-known
Thanks,
I don't absolutely need to have Leica glass, but faster would be nicer as I shoot mostly without flash as it is. I have no issues with getting voigtlander glass, and I think the person I'm planning to buy from has a couple cv lenses kicking around.
I'm leaning towards an M6, I don't need a meter in-camera, but it's helpful as I'm not always wanting to carry extra gear with me.
I don't absolutely need to have Leica glass, but faster would be nicer as I shoot mostly without flash as it is. I have no issues with getting voigtlander glass, and I think the person I'm planning to buy from has a couple cv lenses kicking around.
I'm leaning towards an M6, I don't need a meter in-camera, but it's helpful as I'm not always wanting to carry extra gear with me.
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
If you're really hung on getting a Leica, I'd vote for the M6. Love mine to death. You can get a new Cosina Voigtlander 50mm standard lens for not too much dough. Or, maybe a vintage Summicron DR 50mm F2 from KEH for a more classic look to your photos. Depends on your tastes and budget.
Before I bought my M6, I seriously looked at the M4 line, but wanted the "crutch" of having a light meter. Another vote in favour of the M6 is that there's SO many of them floating out there, so prices are reasonable for what you get.
If you're open to alternatives, you could get a Bessa R-series, or even a gently used Zeiss Ikon ZI ... as mentioned, these models give you Leica M7 technology for a fraction of the price.
A warning: you'll probably get 1000 different opinions here on RFF about "what's the best Leica for the $", so just take everyone's input with a grain of salt -- including mine.
Before I bought my M6, I seriously looked at the M4 line, but wanted the "crutch" of having a light meter. Another vote in favour of the M6 is that there's SO many of them floating out there, so prices are reasonable for what you get.
If you're open to alternatives, you could get a Bessa R-series, or even a gently used Zeiss Ikon ZI ... as mentioned, these models give you Leica M7 technology for a fraction of the price.
A warning: you'll probably get 1000 different opinions here on RFF about "what's the best Leica for the $", so just take everyone's input with a grain of salt -- including mine.
MCTuomey
Veteran
i think you need to answer a few questions to narrow the field of choices. something like this:
need meter and auto-exposure? M7 (over budget)
need meter and ttl flash? M6 ttl
need meter? M6
no meter but need 28mm framelines? M4-P
no meter but need 35mm framelines? M2, M4, M4-2
no meter don't need 35mm framelines? M3
i'm ignoring non-leica body alternatives, though maybe you shouldn't.
need meter and auto-exposure? M7 (over budget)
need meter and ttl flash? M6 ttl
need meter? M6
no meter but need 28mm framelines? M4-P
no meter but need 35mm framelines? M2, M4, M4-2
no meter don't need 35mm framelines? M3
i'm ignoring non-leica body alternatives, though maybe you shouldn't.
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Great flow-chart, MCTuomey. Makes it much clearer to understand the choices.
coelacanth
Ride, dive, shoot.
+1.
I'm one of those thinking light meter is overrated, but yeah, there is no end to "what's best" discussion so follow your heart.
Sounds like M6 classic should be at the top of your list.As for the lens, you can't really go wrong with any of CV glasses. I'm sure you'll want to explore many MANY other lenses sooner or later, so starting off with modern/used CV is a great idea. Once you develop your own preferences of size, speed, characteristics and priorities, you can easily sell the CV lenses at the price you paid and use the fund towards "new" glasses.
Well, you can do this with pretty much any used lenses, but your initial damage will be minimal this way.
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Mephiloco
Well-known
M2 is great for 50 and wider, no meter, and you can get them routinely in working order for $400 - $550.
Personally, I like the M5, but some people think it's too big and don't like the spot meter, and the awesome shutter speed dial
Personally, I like the M5, but some people think it's too big and don't like the spot meter, and the awesome shutter speed dial
nonot
Well-known
Yep, taking everything with a grain of salt.
I suppose I need a light meter, there's too many times where I just pick up my cameras and go without checking my bags or even bothering to take them. A light meter isn't a bad thing in that case.
M7 is out because of price, so it sounds like an M6 classic for me. The lens will be a harder decision I think. I might go a bit over my limit on this.
I suppose I need a light meter, there's too many times where I just pick up my cameras and go without checking my bags or even bothering to take them. A light meter isn't a bad thing in that case.
M7 is out because of price, so it sounds like an M6 classic for me. The lens will be a harder decision I think. I might go a bit over my limit on this.
Honus
carpe diem
This would be my suggestion as well.
Mephiloco
Well-known
Depending on what compromises you're willing to make, you can get a good lens and stay in budget. A good jupiter8 will cost you nothing and takes amazing pictures and is ok as far as speed at 50/2. You can pick up a 90mm elmar for nothing (I just got one with a 'touch of fungus' for $75, shot a test roll wide open and stopped down in bright sunlight, excellent performer), a Canon 85/1.9 for about the same price (though it's huge). For the 35mm length there's the color skopar 35/2.5 which is very sharp and can be had for around $230, there's a Jupiter12 which is a sonnar copy and can be had for under $100, there's there Canon 35/2.8 which is usually cheaper than the CV 35/2.5. You can luck up and get an Ultron 35/1.7 for cheap every now and then (mine cost me $180 about 2 months ago, pristine glass).
If you're patient you can get great gear at a great price especially if you're not set on having to have Leica made products and don't mind 'vintage' gear
JohnnyT
Established
The M6 is definitely a good idea; I kinda like the M2 but reloading is pain in the...
I have a Classic, one of the last batch.
I've removed the battery because I did find it distracting.
For the lens, I'll also go with the group. VC is a wonderful option, so is the ZM. If your on a budget, go for the Planar 50 and take some good wide baby from VC...
I have a Classic, one of the last batch.
I've removed the battery because I did find it distracting.
For the lens, I'll also go with the group. VC is a wonderful option, so is the ZM. If your on a budget, go for the Planar 50 and take some good wide baby from VC...
sanmich
Veteran
Mike
that's the winning Leica choosing algorithm of the century
I think you could include some reference to 0.58 vs 0.72 vs 0.85
but it seems very efficient as is..
nonot
Well-known
Thanks Mephiloco,
I like the idea of the huge variety of lenses for the M and that's why I'm interested in it. If I don't find a good lens to start out with I'll bide my time and just sit on the body. I have an opportunity to trade one of my Contax G2 kits locally for the Leica gear, and I'm trying to do it without spending any more money on top of the trade.
Thanks for the advice from everyone, it's pointing me in a good direction, I think.
I like the idea of the huge variety of lenses for the M and that's why I'm interested in it. If I don't find a good lens to start out with I'll bide my time and just sit on the body. I have an opportunity to trade one of my Contax G2 kits locally for the Leica gear, and I'm trying to do it without spending any more money on top of the trade.
Thanks for the advice from everyone, it's pointing me in a good direction, I think.
Mephiloco
Well-known
If you get the body and need a lens, I'm sure someone can offer you up a J8 or an Industar. I have an extra Jupiter 8 I could give up that is in absolute mint condition. The industar is scratched up but the test shots I took with it look fine. I have a Canon 50/1.2, Summarit 50/1.5, Jupiter 8 50/2, and the Industar 52/2.8. Unless I need the speed, the Jupiter 8 is what I use.
rdeleskie
Well-known
Unless you are used to using a meterless camera, I would strongly suggest a M6. Don't purchase a M2, M3, etc. just to save money - buy one because you love the way of working they embody and excel at.
As much as I like Voigtlander (I own four of their lenses), I'd recommend a Leica lens for your first acquisition, specifically a Summicron 50mm DR or rigid. If you look around, they're not much more expensive than a new Voigtlander Nokton 50, 40 or 35. A Summicron 50/2 will give you the classic Leica look from the late 50s onwards: excellent, distinctive bokeh when wide open, razor sharp when stopped down, and the signature Leica "glow" or "bloom" in the highlights. Not only is the Summicron 50/2 an excellent introduction to world of Leica optics, it's a lens you will likely keep and cherish for a very long time (instead of wanting to sell it or "trade up" in six months).
As much as I like Voigtlander (I own four of their lenses), I'd recommend a Leica lens for your first acquisition, specifically a Summicron 50mm DR or rigid. If you look around, they're not much more expensive than a new Voigtlander Nokton 50, 40 or 35. A Summicron 50/2 will give you the classic Leica look from the late 50s onwards: excellent, distinctive bokeh when wide open, razor sharp when stopped down, and the signature Leica "glow" or "bloom" in the highlights. Not only is the Summicron 50/2 an excellent introduction to world of Leica optics, it's a lens you will likely keep and cherish for a very long time (instead of wanting to sell it or "trade up" in six months).