tbm
Established
Tom, I just rediscovered the attached two-and-one-half page article about the Beutler developer in an old magazine titled "35mm and Sub-Miniature Photography" from December 1962. It was lodged inside one of my 1950s Leica Fotographie magazines. Though the article appeared in three parts in three different issues, I don't appear to have parts two and three. Additionally, I suspect you will learn nothing from this first part, but I thought you might find it somewhat interesting to read nevertheless.
Terry
Terry
Attachments
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Thanks Terry. I even remember having seen that article in one form or another a long time ago. Just like Leica Photographie, the 35mm and miniature film magazines had the worst pictures in them!
Leica did the same thing with their sales and manuals - same old pictures of the old Ford Taunus 12M shot at an oblique angle and various girls dressed in Dirndl alpen dresses! Great fun and nostalgic.
The Beutler was used by Leica for decades as a developer for their promotional prints. Later they switched to Neofin Blau as that was basically the same thing and came premixed.
It is a great developer and I figured out that my developer cost is in the vincinity of $0.08/roll when I mix it myself!.
Leica did the same thing with their sales and manuals - same old pictures of the old Ford Taunus 12M shot at an oblique angle and various girls dressed in Dirndl alpen dresses! Great fun and nostalgic.
The Beutler was used by Leica for decades as a developer for their promotional prints. Later they switched to Neofin Blau as that was basically the same thing and came premixed.
It is a great developer and I figured out that my developer cost is in the vincinity of $0.08/roll when I mix it myself!.
tbm
Established
How does Beutler handle white tones? I ask because I captured images of some people recently wearing clean, new t-shirts in semi-bright sun, processesd the Acros 100 in ID-ll without dilution, and there was no detail in the t-shirt material.
oftheherd
Veteran
There was a book in the 70s that had a lot of formulas for different developers, and Buetlers and Neofine Blu were in it as I recall. I don't recall the name, but it was something like the Photographer's Darkroom Handbook or some such. I used some of the formulas to experiment with in Korea the first time I was there. It used to be easy to buy photo chemicals and mix your own.
1948nikon
Established
Yes Toms right again.
Neofin Blau was in fact the equivalent of Willy Beutler's developer. There was also Neofin RED for high speed work or high contrast. Beautiful clean working developers .
Neofin Blau was in fact the equivalent of Willy Beutler's developer. There was also Neofin RED for high speed work or high contrast. Beautiful clean working developers .
Harry Lime
Practitioner
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Beutler in the 1:1:8 dilution tend to be a bit contrasty, but by diluting it to 1:1:10 with Acros it is moderated. A lot depends on your exposures too - if the detail is not in the neg - its gone!
If you do a lot of shooting in high contrast situations - the divided developers work best. I have used them all I think and the latest one was Td 201, which has the advantage that it will work on modern T-grain films. Most of the older ones will give very thin Tmax negatives - but the Td 201 id well, even with Tmax 100 (miserable film for high contrast usually) and the new Tmax 2-400.
With the Td 201 you need to set up a filtration system though as it will accumulate "crap" cheerfully and deposit on the finished film. A simple Melitta coffee filter works well - or a school lab filter and funnel works even better. Expect to get at least 40-45 rolls through a 2000 ml A and B Td 201 and good high light separation too. Not good for pushing though - rated speed or maybe even a 1/2 stop down.
Just Goggle TD 201 or go to the "Shooting Kodak Double X" site her on RFf - lots of information by severely chemically dependent users!
If you do a lot of shooting in high contrast situations - the divided developers work best. I have used them all I think and the latest one was Td 201, which has the advantage that it will work on modern T-grain films. Most of the older ones will give very thin Tmax negatives - but the Td 201 id well, even with Tmax 100 (miserable film for high contrast usually) and the new Tmax 2-400.
With the Td 201 you need to set up a filtration system though as it will accumulate "crap" cheerfully and deposit on the finished film. A simple Melitta coffee filter works well - or a school lab filter and funnel works even better. Expect to get at least 40-45 rolls through a 2000 ml A and B Td 201 and good high light separation too. Not good for pushing though - rated speed or maybe even a 1/2 stop down.
Just Goggle TD 201 or go to the "Shooting Kodak Double X" site her on RFf - lots of information by severely chemically dependent users!
charjohncarter
Veteran
I don't think I will use this developer but thanks for posting the information. It is always fun to read about what others are doing.
Fotohuis
Well-known
I am looking for developing-film data for the Beutler developer. I could not find some developing table, only some loose phrases.
Due to the fact the Amaloco AM20/50 developer is discontinued I am searching for a replacement.
AM50 is a high definition developer based on Pyrocatechine and it's a non-staining developer. Neofin Blau/blue (Tetenal) is pretty expensive (>Eur. 10,00 for 5 small bottles) so I think it's time to make my own Beutler receipture.
So in that way I am looking for more data especially for the slow and medium speed films.
Due to the fact the Amaloco AM20/50 developer is discontinued I am searching for a replacement.
AM50 is a high definition developer based on Pyrocatechine and it's a non-staining developer. Neofin Blau/blue (Tetenal) is pretty expensive (>Eur. 10,00 for 5 small bottles) so I think it's time to make my own Beutler receipture.
So in that way I am looking for more data especially for the slow and medium speed films.
ChrisN
Striving
Fotohuis
Well-known
Yes, more data please.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Data - as I see it with Beutler (and according to my exposures). Use as a guide lines as , as they say, the results may vary:
Acros 100 @100: Beutler 1:1:10 for 7 min
Tmax 100 @100: Beutler 1:1;8 for 7.5 -8min
Efke 25 @32 : Beutler !:1:8 for 5,5 min (in bright, contrasty light - use 1:1:10 and same times.
You can use Beutler with 400 iso film too - but be prepared for aggresive grain.
Tri X @400 1:1:8 11 min
XX @250 1:1:8 10 min
Presto 400 @400 1:1:8 12 min.
Tmax2 @ 400 1:1:8 12.5 min.
Beutler is very agitation sensitive. Dont over agitate. I usually do 2 turns/min (with Paterson 5 reel tanks).
Mixed A/B stock seem to last at least 2 month.
With some slower films (Acros/Efke) I occasionally agitate two turns every minute, except the last 2-4 minutes when I do it every 2nd minute.
One of the great combinations is (if you can find it) Kodak's 5231 ( Plus X movie stock) - shot at 80-100 iso and developed in Beutler 1:1:10 for 6.5 min. Great midtones and very smooth grain. Great "sunny" weather film as it handles mid and highs very well.
I will venture into my files and see if I have more results somewhere and post them. There are a lot of Beutler samples on our Flick'r site too.
Acros 100 @100: Beutler 1:1:10 for 7 min
Tmax 100 @100: Beutler 1:1;8 for 7.5 -8min
Efke 25 @32 : Beutler !:1:8 for 5,5 min (in bright, contrasty light - use 1:1:10 and same times.
You can use Beutler with 400 iso film too - but be prepared for aggresive grain.
Tri X @400 1:1:8 11 min
XX @250 1:1:8 10 min
Presto 400 @400 1:1:8 12 min.
Tmax2 @ 400 1:1:8 12.5 min.
Beutler is very agitation sensitive. Dont over agitate. I usually do 2 turns/min (with Paterson 5 reel tanks).
Mixed A/B stock seem to last at least 2 month.
With some slower films (Acros/Efke) I occasionally agitate two turns every minute, except the last 2-4 minutes when I do it every 2nd minute.
One of the great combinations is (if you can find it) Kodak's 5231 ( Plus X movie stock) - shot at 80-100 iso and developed in Beutler 1:1:10 for 6.5 min. Great midtones and very smooth grain. Great "sunny" weather film as it handles mid and highs very well.
I will venture into my files and see if I have more results somewhere and post them. There are a lot of Beutler samples on our Flick'r site too.
Fotohuis
Well-known
Thank you very much for this insight information about Beutler receipture.
Are you using the original formulae or have you modified the formulae with 0.001% PotassiumIodide where you have even a bit more edge effect from this developer? This modified Beutler is comming very close to Crawley's FX-1 High Acutance developer.
Best regards,
Robert
Are you using the original formulae or have you modified the formulae with 0.001% PotassiumIodide where you have even a bit more edge effect from this developer? This modified Beutler is comming very close to Crawley's FX-1 High Acutance developer.
Best regards,
Robert
Harry Lime
Practitioner
I use a variation of this developer that was tweaked by the late Barry Thornton, to work better with thinner modern emulsions. I've been using it for about 2 years now and have developed a few hundred rolls of Tri-X with it. It is superb for any film up to 400asa and I gave up on Ilford DD-X etc.
BATH A
Metol- 6.5gr
Soduim Sulfite- 85 gr
Water to make 1 liter
BATH B
Sodium Metaborate- 12gr
Water to make 1 liter
Do not presoak
Do NOT agitate bath B. Just give the tank a tap against the table and let it sit.
Look here on APUG for more info
http://tinyurl.com/op38co
BATH A
Metol- 6.5gr
Soduim Sulfite- 85 gr
Water to make 1 liter
BATH B
Sodium Metaborate- 12gr
Water to make 1 liter
Do not presoak
Do NOT agitate bath B. Just give the tank a tap against the table and let it sit.
Look here on APUG for more info
http://tinyurl.com/op38co
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Fotohuis
Well-known
OK, thanks to all data especially those from Tom I could extrapolate the developing times for the new Rollei SUPER Pan 200 film with the Beutler receipture.
When the film has dried I will measure the exact logD values with my TRD-Z densitometer (see above photo).
There are a lot of good parameters and things for this Willi Beutler developer and it's really easy to make. As already said I am searching for a high quality High Definition developer instead of the AM50 of Amaloco Photochemicals.
Best regards,
Robert
When the film has dried I will measure the exact logD values with my TRD-Z densitometer (see above photo).
There are a lot of good parameters and things for this Willi Beutler developer and it's really easy to make. As already said I am searching for a high quality High Definition developer instead of the AM50 of Amaloco Photochemicals.
Best regards,
Robert
like2fiddle
Curious
So now I'm curious about making some of this/these developer(s). I've used Arm & Hammer Washing soda as a source of Sodium Carbonate in my caffenol developer. Does anyone know if it can be used as the Sodium Carbonate for making up Beutler?
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
I have tried both versions. I could not see any difference in 100-400 iso film with or without the iodide. On really slow films KB 14/Efke 25 there is a slight improvement with the iodide, but considering the problem in getting the stuff, I doubt it is worth it.
I just got some extra Tech Pan and i will venture some experiments with the Beutler and that film later this summer- it needs a lot of light!
Fotohuis
Well-known
You're lucky because I had the same problem
Yes, you can use it but it's not so practical due to the extra water inside the Sodiumcabonate. You have to recalculate it back. Na2CO3 . 10 . H2O
So instead of:
1 mol Na2CO3 = 52g
1 mol Na2CO3 . 10 . H2O = 152g
152/52 x 50 g = 146,2 g Soda to weight.
So far it worked but it will depend on the quality of household soda. However it's worldwide produced by Solvay.
My first result of Beutler with the (Rollei) SUPER Pan 200 film is very good. Zone V (greycard) on 0,76 logD which is perfect. Very very sharp negatives!!
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Fotohuis
Well-known
Getting the stuff is not a problem, KI (Potassium Iodide) is in the fixer test (10%) but making especially the dillution and add it means not so practical chemistry 10% --> 0,001%.
In a commercial formulation it would be a problem either however Photographers' Formulary seems to add it in a 10ml vial cup.
Best regards,
Robert