Broken M6 auction, what do you think?

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Kozhe

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Hi everybody!

I´ve been watching this and I don´t know what to think:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250381803332&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:DE:1123

My german is terrible so I asked the seller and this is what he told me:

- Leica M6 Body, series No. 1681948, with instructions is verharzt shutter, light-knives defective. The body would have to into an inspection and cleaned as well as is repaired. The left red stain is the Leica emblem, the right red stain is a reflection in the seeker of the Leica

I told him I don´t get the "verharzt shutter, light-knives defective" part (what the... does this mean??) and he said:

- If you please excuse, from which island you actually come from? Every English inquiry was understood in this sense. Please ask your photographer or salespersons in the discounter

I guess the camera has a broken lightmeter and the shutter is not working, but I have the feeling I don´t get a word from what this guy´s saying.

What do you think? Is this a chance to get a cheap reparable M6 ?

 
verharzt wasn't an English word the last time I checked... In German he doesn't give any reason why the shutter is 'verharzt' (which I think means gummed up, but maybe someone with better German can answer).

By light knives maybe he means shutter curtains - a focal plane shutter is Schlitzverschluss in German, Schlitz can also mean slash or tear, and maybe when you put it through Google translate light knives is what comes out.

But really I'm not sure.
 
I don't know about the camera, but:

I wouldn't buy from someone who doesn't even make the effort to write a legible description for his item. Also, his reply to your question was pretty rude and he obviously doesn't speak English and just uses Google which would mean all kinds of trouble in case something goes wrong after sales.
 
I'd also say don't do it, otherwise - gummed up would work for 'verharzt', the shutter is probably stuck or just way off. Also, the light meter is broken, that dude really isn't the smartest. If you want to ask him something, feel free to post it up here and I'll translate back and forth.

martin
 
OK, I asked him in German. I asked what light knives meant but he didn't answer - but Rogrund's suggestion makes total sense.

This is what he said:
[FONT=arial,sans-serif]Verharzt mein das das Oel alt ist und in einer Inspektion gesäuber werden sollte. Gruss BL.

"Verharzt" means that the oil is old and need to be clean up and should become in an inspection. Greeting BL.[/FONT]
 
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Invisible ink, for those of us using the white background. 🙂

This is what he said:
Verharzt mein das das Oel alt ist und in einer Inspektion gesäuber werden sollte. Gruss BL.

"Verharzt" means that the oil is old and need to be clean up and should become in an inspection. Greeting BL.
 
I wouldn't buy this M6. More than € 200,- for a Cam you don't know whats broken and it's an early model of the M6. Don't know, perhaps the bid goes to 300,- plus a CLA 250,- and no guarantee if it will work after all plus post and package to spain, he prefers Hermes--> ca. 15,- and he doesn't accept PayPal......hmmmm. I wouldn't buy.
 
I just had a look at the auction and here is - in short - what he says:

"Light meter is broken, shutter is gummed up (or resinified), camera has been checked by a "master craftsman" (Meisterbetrieb) in Hamburg, camera is from a household clearance of a relative"

About "Meisterbetrieb", it could be he is talking about "Meister-Kamera" a very high reputed official Leica dealer in Hamburg.

There is also an important information, that this sale is from private and therefore ALL kind of warranty / return excluded.

EDIT: I am not the seller, have no relation to the seller at all but German is my native language
 
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maddoc said:
About "Meisterbetrieb", it could be he is talking about "Meister-Kamera" a very high reputed official Leica dealer in Hamburg.
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Highly unlikely, Meisterbetrieb is a generic term for a company employing a professional repairman.

The note on limited warranty in private sales is very common in auction descriptions in Germany and is due to a panic on German eBay a few years ago when a lot of people feared they might become liable for warranty.

I also wonder what the red blob in front of the viewfinder window is.

All his translations look like he just put them through Google. I don't think he's particularly unreliable. It's a bit difficult to get 100% positive feedback on close to 900 auctions if you're unreliable. He's just selling off a lot of camera-related stuff at the moment without having a clue, probably for someone else. That's also why I still wouldn't bid on that camera, you might lose too much on CLA and light meter repair if it's broken.
 
rxmd said:
It's a bit difficult to get 100% positive feedback on close to 900 auctions if you're unreliable.
Click to expand...

I'm going off on a tangent here, but I don't really trust ebay ratings any more. Have you ever given negative feedback to a seller when you had trouble? Amateur sellers like myself might accept getting negative feedback, but especially pro sellers will *fight* to get it removed, threatening buyers with lawsuits and all that.

Until recently it was very common for sellers to automatically give a negative "revenge" rating to buyers who rate them negatively (1 negative rating out of 1000 doesn't hurt them too bad, but 1 out of 20 for a private buyer might in future sales). A policy change stopped that kind of behavior.

I'm not saying any of this applies to the seller here, but I'm still wary of trusting the rating system.

Regards,
Philipp
 
philipp.leser said:
I'm going off on a tangent here, but I don't really trust ebay ratings any more. Have you ever given negative feedback to a seller when you had trouble?
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No, but then I haven't had trouble yet that warranted it. I've given neutral feedback several times.

It's true that feedback may not mean all that much. I normally try to read feedback text for the last 100 entries or so; that may be more informative than the mere rating.
 
Hmm,
He does mention that the camera was inspected by a Meisterbetrieb, but I've got some zorki's here that I could get inspected by a hundred Meisterbetriebe and still they would not be much good.

Dirk
 
If it would sell for $250-350 it could be resurrected and still be a good user.
New shutter and CLA would be upwards of $300 and the light measuring module is another couple of $100. For, say $750 to $900 you would then have a fully serviced M6. It depends to some extent who does the service though, Some are more expensive than others.
It is an early M6 and the light meter module in those could give you trouble. I had a couple replaced under warranty in the mid 80's. Not a huge deal and they have worked fine since then.
At least the seller is honest in describing the potential problems. It is all a matter of "is it worth the trouble" to do the service.
 
I've left negative feedback once on German ebay - some guy sold me a like new Bessa R with a broken film pressure plate and then when I complained told me I was giving him stress, that I didn't understand what "neuwertig" meant, and that anyway I should be pleased because I paid less for the camera than he paid new.

But a couple of times I have left positive feeback for items which turned out to be faulty - once with an amplifier, which worked for just long enough (10 minutes) for me to leave positive feedback, then broke. It was full of dust inside, so it obviously hadn't been workshop inspected like said. That was a seller with a lot of feeback, a 100% rating, and the reapir was really, really expensive.

Then I got a pair of speakers which turned out to have a damaged tweeter, but it wasn't obvious at a casual listen, so again the seller got positive feedback before I noticed.
 
If you like to gamble and you like complicated dealings go ahead...

But at best you'll save only a little money. And don't forget the expense for the insured postage from Germany, to the repair shop, back from the repair shop....and the time it will all take...

On the other hand, a near mint M6 in the RFF classifieds, much more recent vintage, for $1200.
 
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