Buy a second M8 or add an M9???

[rivercityrocker]

@keytarjunkie:

Well, I didn't go through the full rundown of my friend and I's conversation. I was trying to get away from heavy DSLR's and thought maybe the key was going all Leica for most stuff.

He advised that the M was much better than the M9 and that I'd probably be better suited carrying that and a DSLR for what I do (he's in a similar line of work). Which is what I have been doing. I have two Df's coming in so that may be the key to lightening up the load and having a good full-frame M

I don't really need an excuse to by something new. I'm not married. I make 90% of my money from photography and the rest from music, so cameras and guitars that are luxury items to some are tax write-offs for me. However, I simply cannot afford two M's at this time, nor an M and an M9. I don't do credit. If I can't pay cash then I save. In time I'll likely have an M and a M9.

Sometimes I am limited by the M8. When Iggy Pop was all up in my face a couple of months ago the 50 was too long and the noise was unbearable since he wasn't in the spot light.

Also I know that there are quite a few people who have returned their M8's to Leica only to be told they were out of parts, and upgrade is the only option. There's a chance that I may not have the money at that point and time. And it's unclear if they'd offer me the upgrade with a used camera. It could turn into a paperweight.

Anyway, this is more of a thought process on how to get to where I want to go and be as flexible as I can in the meantime.

 

[rivercityrocker]

Note that as the pixel density on the sensors is identical (actually the M9 has the same sensor as the M8, only larger) an image from the M9 cropped to M8 size is exactly the same image as you would take with the M8. That nullifies the "longer lens on smaller sensor" argument.

I seldom if ever crop. The last time I cropped something I made it square because a friend wanted me to post it on instagram.

 

[jaapv]

Umm...the post was not about cropping or not - it was about pixel size and sensor size, making the long lens on a smaller sensor argument moot. That is only valid if the smaller sensor has a higer pixel density/smaller pixels.

 

[Fraser]

I've always liked having identical bodies for work, I do have an M9 but never really use it for work. Surely for concert/music photography a DSLR is the way to go far more flexible than any of the Ms. Considering you could buy two Canon 5dmk3 for the price of an M and for a bit extra a 24mm 1.4 and an 135mm f2 which would not be very heavy to carry around. As much as I like my M9 I would always prefer having a DSLR for work.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[Ben Z]

I just came back from a trip with a bunch of guys using the new M. The vast majority of them had the EVF on it and seemed to be using it even with focal lengths which have frame lines in the optical finder. Also, I had one in my hands comparing it to my M9 and the M is noticeably thicker. A lot of the owners had an accessory grip on it. Honestly, with the added thickness, a grip, and the EVF, the M(240) is not that much smaller or less obtrusive than a Canon 6D or Nikon D600. So if that's a factor in your concert shooting, you might want to think twice about the M. That said, the high ISO is said to be cleaner, which might be a plus for that type of shooting.

 

[rivercityrocker]

Umm...the post was not about cropping or not - it was about pixel size and sensor size, making the long lens on a smaller sensor argument moot. That is only valid if the smaller sensor has a higer pixel density/smaller pixels.

I don't recall making any statements about long lenses on small sensors. As a matter of fact I don't even think I mentioned using my 90mm lens at all. All I was talking about was getting the most out of 50mm Summilux. It's my nicest lens, but I use it less because I go with a 35mm Nokton most of the time.

 

[rivercityrocker]

Surely for concert/music photography a DSLR is the way to go far more flexible than any of the Ms.

I've been shooting concerts for decades. There were few people doing it then. Used to be 3-4 photographers per show tops. Now even for relatively unknown indie bands there are 15-20. No exaggeration. We're all in the same spot. We're all using essentially the same gear. Except for composition images are all looking the same. I'm losing out on $ because of people who work cheaper. When I started using the Leica my images changed. They look different, I work different. I am creating a different style for my work that is setting it apart from the cookie cutter DSLR's. I need to get a certain amount of shots for my agency, so for now, I bring one DSLR and I nail the money shots. Then I switch to the M8.

A couple of months ago I shot a smallish festival in Denver and I used only the M8 and a IIIf and I was surprised by the amount of shots I nailed.

So shooting with a Leica is a way to separate my work from the DSLR wielding mid-life crisis soccer moms, cool hipster chicks, a indie music nerds, that are flooding the market right now.

People see the difference in the images. Even regular people notice the Leica shots more. Even the cheap CV 35 Nokton draws differently than my Sigma 35 f/1.4. It's changing my photography and that is what I need right now to cut through the pack.

 

[rivercityrocker]

I just came back from a trip with a bunch of guys using the new M. The vast majority of them had the EVF on it and seemed to be using it even with focal lengths which have frame lines in the optical finder. Also, I had one in my hands comparing it to my M9 and the M is noticeably thicker. A lot of the owners had an accessory grip on it. Honestly, with the added thickness, a grip, and the EVF, the M(240) is not that much smaller or less obtrusive than a Canon 6D or Nikon D600. So if that's a factor in your concert shooting, you might want to think twice about the M. That said, the high ISO is said to be cleaner, which might be a plus for that type of shooting.

I despise grips and especially EVFs. The grips are ugly and uncomfortable and EVF's hurt my eye. I like looking through a viewfinder not at it.

 

[rivercityrocker]

Here's some comparison shots:

Nikon:

Leica:

Nikon:

Leica:

 

[crispy12]

I carry a Nikon 35-70 2.8 which is rather small with an adapter and the EVF for times when I want some detail shots less than 70cm. This has eliminated any need for DSLR for me, as I can do macro and close focus shots.

It's also useful for getting low angle shots because the EVF can be adjusted. Sometimes I shoot it like a TLR. I like the flexibility. I can shoot it any way I want.

 

[CrisR]

I use an M8 and M9, partly because the M8 is still a fantastic camera that I intend to use until it no longer works, but also because it offers me combinations of FOVs depending on the lenses I pop on.

Some examples of the combos I often use

M9 + 35mm & M8 + 25mm / This provides a 35mm and 34mm FOV, near identical

M9 + 50mm & M8 + 35mm / This provides a 50mm and 47mm FOV, near identical

M9 + 35mm & M8 + 50mm / This provides a 35mm and 67mm FOV, one 2x the other

M9 + 25mm & M8 + 35mm / This provides a 25mm and 47mm FOV, one 2x the other

M9 + 21mm & M8 + 50mm / This provides a 21mm and 67mm FOV, one 3x the other

- See more at: http://crisrose.co.uk/crisrose/gear-cris-uses/cameras-cris-uses/#sthash.nFBPOE6H.dpuf

Of course, one is merely a crop of the other, which can be done in post, but i find that being offered that crop in the VF, as I see, frame and shoot it, is essentially a different experience.

 

[rivercityrocker]

I use an M8 and M9, partly because the M8 is still a fantastic camera that I intend to use until it no longer works, but also because it offers me combinations of FOVs depending on the lenses I pop on.

Ah, see this is the kind of information I like. Practical.

 

[Fraser]

I use an M8 and M9, partly because the M8 is still a fantastic camera that I intend to use until it no longer works, but also because it offers me combinations of FOVs depending on the lenses I pop on.

Some examples of the combos I often use

M9 + 35mm & M8 + 25mm / This provides a 35mm and 34mm FOV, near identical

M9 + 50mm & M8 + 35mm / This provides a 50mm and 47mm FOV, near identical

M9 + 35mm & M8 + 50mm / This provides a 35mm and 67mm FOV, one 2x the other

M9 + 25mm & M8 + 35mm / This provides a 25mm and 47mm FOV, one 2x the other

M9 + 21mm & M8 + 50mm / This provides a 21mm and 67mm FOV, one 3x the other

- See more at: http://crisrose.co.uk/crisrose/gear-cris-uses/cameras-cris-uses/#sthash.nFBPOE6H.dpuf

Of course, one is merely a crop of the other, which can be done in post, but i find that being offered that crop in the VF, as I see, frame and shoot it, is essentially a different experience.

Good points the only thing I would say is lenses like 35mm on a M8 look like a crop from a 35mm not a 45.5mm.

 

[jaapv]

I just came back from a trip with a bunch of guys using the new M. The vast majority of them had the EVF on it and seemed to be using it even with focal lengths which have frame lines in the optical finder. Also, I had one in my hands comparing it to my M9 and the M is noticeably thicker. A lot of the owners had an accessory grip on it. Honestly, with the added thickness, a grip, and the EVF, the M(240) is not that much smaller or less obtrusive than a Canon 6D or Nikon D600. So if that's a factor in your concert shooting, you might want to think twice about the M. That said, the high ISO is said to be cleaner, which might be a plus for that type of shooting.

Your M9 must have shrunk in the dishwasher. My M and M9 differ by ½ a mm max.

 

[hepcat]

Oh no. I went that route. TWICE. I tried to make that thing work. It's like launching a drone attack with a faulty navigation system.

ROTF... Best analogy yet! I only did it once tho... and then bought Leica.

I bought the M8 first and was so pleased with it that a couple months later I bought an M9-P. I find them to be complementary. I've considered selling the M8 and buying another M9 or M9-P, but I still appreciate the unique characteristics of the M8 as well. They do well together, and each has it's strengths that you can maximize.

As another working pro, no one is more cost-conscious than I; hence the brief foray into the Fuji world... but I've found the M9 is worth the price of admission. And the combo of the M8 and M9 is a cost-effective, efficient combination.

On edit... I also use the UV/IR cut filters on all my lenses even on the M9-P... the color rendering is different than anything else out there.

 

[tempest68]

When I started using the Leica my images changed. They look different, I work different. I am creating a different style for my work that is setting it apart from the cookie cutter DSLR's.

Then you may want to stick with the M9. I don't know if you are familiar with Peter's blog: http://prosophos.com/blog/ His subjective opinion is that the CMOS sensor of the M is not offering an IQ improvement vs. the CCD sensor of the M9 or M-E. He states the M photos look more DSLR like and do not have the same "Leica Look" as some folks refer to it that the M9 produces.

I'm too new to my M8 to really compare it to my Canon 5D II for overall image character. But I know I have one or two pictures I took with the M8 and Zeiss Biogon 28mm f/2.8 where I felt the image reminded me of the results I get with slide film.

 

[jaapv]

That is simply a matter of sorting your postprocessing workflow for the new camera. It needs to be done for any new camera and it takes a bit of time and effort to obtain the optimum results. We got the same complaints in the forums when the M9 succeeded the M8. The M files are considerable more malleable than the M9 ones. Until your realize that they look less poppy and flatter.

Especially for concert photography the M will yield better results as there is vastly more shadow detail to be brought out.

 

[rso]

I believe Setadel studio in Toronto has an M RIGHT NOW (nov 9 2013) if you are still looking for it.
(no, I am not associated with that store)

 

[raid]

I do same (see posting 13).

It is a great combo.
Today, I replaced the 50/1.5 with the 75/1.4 on the M8. It gives a useful 100mm lens.



Raid

I use an M8 and M9, partly because the M8 is still a fantastic camera that I intend to use until it no longer works, but also because it offers me combinations of FOVs depending on the lenses I pop on.

Some examples of the combos I often use

M9 + 35mm & M8 + 25mm / This provides a 35mm and 34mm FOV, near identical

M9 + 50mm & M8 + 35mm / This provides a 50mm and 47mm FOV, near identical

M9 + 35mm & M8 + 50mm / This provides a 35mm and 67mm FOV, one 2x the other

M9 + 25mm & M8 + 35mm / This provides a 25mm and 47mm FOV, one 2x the other

M9 + 21mm & M8 + 50mm / This provides a 21mm and 67mm FOV, one 3x the other

- See more at: http://crisrose.co.uk/crisrose/gear-cris-uses/cameras-cris-uses/#sthash.nFBPOE6H.dpuf

Of course, one is merely a crop of the other, which can be done in post, but i find that being offered that crop in the VF, as I see, frame and shoot it, is essentially a different experience.

 

[rivercityrocker]

ROTF... Best analogy yet! I only did it once tho... and then bought Leica.

I bought the M8 first and was so pleased with it that a couple months later I bought an M9-P. I find them to be complementary. I've considered selling the M8 and buying another M9 or M9-P, but I still appreciate the unique characteristics of the M8 as well. They do well together, and each has it's strengths that you can maximize.

As another working pro, no one is more cost-conscious than I; hence the brief foray into the Fuji world... but I've found the M9 is worth the price of admission. And the combo of the M8 and M9 is a cost-effective, efficient combination.

That's funny. We went down the exact same route. I bought the Fuji and didn't like it. Bought the M8 and loved it (still do). I've been doing a lot of shopping around. I found someone willing to do a silver M9 with 40K clicks for about $3400. I almost did it, but decided to wait over the weekend to decide. The silver paint is ugly to me and it was a 3 owner camera.

I'd been watching an M9-P that seemed to be going unnoticed and it ended really early in the morning. I set my alarm and put in a bid of just over $4.3K last minute, kinda expecting to be outbid as I haven't seen one go for less than $5K. I got it for just over $4K, surprisingly. It was at the factory and in Sept. and had CCD/RF/framelines/metering adjustments and the vulcanite replaced with leatherette (paperwork included). I'd say I did good.