C-41 question: Solution too quickly exhausted

[Moogie77]

Dear forum friends,

I searched the forum but did not find any thread for this question.
I usually shoot and develop b&w film.
From time to time I also shoot color but I still prefer to develop myself.
Now I have the challenge that the C-41 Kit I always use gets too quickly exhausted. Even though I exchange / refill double amount I already too often experienced an undeveloped film as a surprise.
I am wondering if there is any possibility similar to b&w chemistry to always just make fresh chemicals from a concentrate or powder?
If yes, is this applicable for developer, bleacher and fixer or can I just use the b&w fixer and just mix the dev and bleach?
As I just finished developing another failed roll I am quite frustrated now...
Hope you have some useful suggestions for me.

Thanks to everyone.

Miguel

 

[shawn]

You could figure out the ratios of powder/liquids to mix them one shot. Probably easier with the liquids but even then the amount of liquid to water will be small so measurement errors will be likely. Also, the powder/liquid would now be opened and potentially aging from exposure to oxygen.

I tend to go the other way and just put my exposed color film in the fridge and then mix up a C41 kit when I have enough rolls. Just did this a couple of days ago with 13 rolls.

Shawn

 

[Bill Clark]

Which C-41 kit are you using?

Try to keep the developer at the temp you start out with through the time used with your film.

The instructions should say what amount of extra time you need to develop your film as you use it multiple times.

I use Arista C-41 kit from Freestyle.

Just bought a Rollie C-41 kit to try out on Ilford’s XP 2 Plus.

Suggest downliading pdf instructions for your kit.

C-41 is easy to use. For all color negative films and two black and white films. Not the gadzillion different types of developers available for black and white film.

 

[wpb]

You can make a fresh batch each time but you would need to use chemicals designed for replenishment. In addition to the standard developer, bleach and fix you would need developer starter as well. you would mix the desired amount of developer and add the starter as it will lower the activity of fresh developer mimicking the results from a "seasoned" tank. You would need to do this each time or if you kept the used developer in a tightly sealed container and replenish it (with a small amount fresh developer) if you planned to do another batch in a few days to maybe a week. You can't just mix up developer and get results that would be within standards, it will be way higher contrast.

 

[Bill Clark]

You can make a fresh batch each time but you would need to use chemicals designed for replenishment. In addition to the standard developer, bleach and fix you would need developer starter as well.

Why do you need chemicals for replenishment?

The Arista and Rollie kits are easy to use. I’ve never had to use any developer starter. Maybe decades ago but it’s simple now. B&H won’t ship but avail in store pickup while Freestyle still ships. Received my latest kit Fed-X.

Matter of fact Rollie has several times that can be used with different temps. Only three steps, little final wash water used and little time.

Here is a pdf of the Arista C-41 kit:

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/static/pdf/product_pdfs/arista/Arista-liquid-C41.pdf

Have you developed any C-41 type films lately!

 

[wpb]

You haven't used developer starter because the kits don't need it. I use flexicolor replenishment chemistry because it is significantly less expensive, and i know how to use it as one shot developer in my Jobo CPE. I was a lab manager for about ten years and have developed miles of C-41 film.

 

[Bill Clark]

You haven't used developer starter because the kits don't need it.

When I was in business, I developed hundreds of rolls of film each year. Both medium format and 35. A business in Los Angeles would scan my films, catagorize them for me, and put them on the internet.

Then I changed to digital and never looked back.

Don’t you think the gent asking here would use the type of kit I use?

Why make it sound complicated for him?

Smiles.

 

[wpb]

Seems like that isn't working out. Mixing the chemistry isn't that difficult and provides cheaper and more consistent results.

 

[benlees]

OP, we need to know what kit you are using.

As far as I know there are no available consumer grade C41 chems that allow easy and convenient mixing of a one shot type found in b&w (like Rodinal, or HC-110, etc).

I did it like Shawn does: use a 1L (powder) kit, mix it up and develop many rolls at once before the chems exhaust. One of the reasons why I succumbed to digital

 

[Bill Clark]

s far as I know there are no available consumer grade C41 chems that allow easy and convenient mixing of a one shot type found in b&w (like Rodinal, or HC-110, etc).

If you take a look at the pdf I put up on the Arista C-41 kit there is a quart size working solution listed. What I do is divide the quart amounts of chemicals in half resulting with 16 ounces of developer. Works for me.

Sometimes I would use this as one shot but other times I would do several rolls of film.

I figured, at the low end of amount of films developed with a one gallon kit, about 75 rolls it would cost me about a buck a roll.

Truth be known, I found, for my eyes and my clients, the colors were more vibrant by overdeveloping a little. Just my taste and from my experience.

My developing I thought came out better than the lab I used as I figured the lab would max out the ability of the chemicals to work.

 

[Moogie77]

Thanks a lot for all the answers so far.
Regarding the kit I use, it is a bit difficult to say. As I currently work as an expat in China I order an unknown kit from the Chinese internet. The instruction says (maybe I understood it wrong) that no additional dev. time is needed but always exchange some old chemical with an amount of a refresher and to do this within 20 days. I thought if you do re-fresh within 20 days you could use it for another 20 days and so on...
I think this is probably the mistake, that it is in total 20 days, no matter what.
I was also already thinking just to safe the 10 rolls or so and develop all of them in short time after each other.
I used a digibase kit before where I needed to add some time after each development.
But I was still hoping I could just always mix a fresh developer and bleacher, maybe use it for 2-4 rolls and then mix some new next time. So with a powder C-41 this would work? Is this powder available as bleacher as well? The fixer I can use a normal b&w as well?
If nothing else works out, I will simply use the collection method but usually I don't want to wait and collect after I shot a roll as I am too excited and want to see the results...

 

[shawn]

Thanks a lot for all the answers so far.
Regarding the kit I use, it is a bit difficult to say. As I currently work as an expat in China I order an unknown kit from the Chinese internet. The instruction says (maybe I understood it wrong) that no additional dev. time is needed but always exchange some old chemical with an amount of a refresher and to do this within 20 days. I thought if you do re-fresh within 20 days you could use it for another 20 days and so on...
I think this is probably the mistake, that it is in total 20 days, no matter what.
I was also already thinking just to safe the 10 rolls or so and develop all of them in short time after each other.
I used a digibase kit before where I needed to add some time after each development.
But I was still hoping I could just always mix a fresh developer and bleacher, maybe use it for 2-4 rolls and then mix some new next time. So with a powder C-41 this would work? Is this powder available as bleacher as well? The fixer I can use a normal b&w as well?
If nothing else works out, I will simply use the collection method but usually I don't want to wait and collect after I shot a roll as I am too excited and want to see the results...

The powder Tetenal and Unicolor 1 liter kits are all powder. Bleach and fix are the same step but you mix two different powders to make that. You would likely need a scale to figure out how much to mix but realistically with that kit you would only get maybe 2 'one shots' out of it since they only make 1l anyway.

Figuring out how to do that with wpd's method is probably easier. If I'm not mistaken the chemicals would cost about $200 (freestyle photo) but be enough for 20 liters of chemistry (50 for the bleach and stabilizer). The powdered Teterna/Unicolor are $25 for a liter of chemistry.

Totally understand wanting to see results soon. But it is also kind of fun to collect the film and then discover what is on the rolls again later. That only works for personal use of course.

Shawn

 

[Corran]

Use a liquid kit, mixed just before development at a 1:1 ratio over "normal," extend development to taste, double blix times, and use one shot.

Did this for years with 4x5 film in tubes using 2oz of chemistry per sheet (one ounce of working solution + water). It works.

 

[Moogie77]

Thanks everybody for the helpful feedbacks. So I will order some chemicals for self mixing next time and give it a try. Wish everybody a nice weekend.