FrankS
Registered User
After reading some reviews on this camera, it seems to me that Canon is getting close to an ideal P+S for me and my limited digi needs. Anyone have one? What do you think about it?
Canon digi G10 is getting close
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Michael Markey
Veteran
Review of the G10 in BW mag this month. Also some great photographs of the interior of St George`s Chapel Windsor using M and R Leicas by Eleanor Curtis. The authorities insisted that she use quiet cameras !
Leighgion
Bovine Overseer
The G10's rep is strong and I was considering it, but have two hassles with it: it's too big and too expensive for a digital P&S.
While still smaller than a DSLR, it's left comfortably pocketable territory and at over $400 street price, it's not a lot less money than a Nikon D40. So, you end up with a deluxe P&S that's too big to pocket comfortably and costs almost as much as a DSLR while being unable to offer anywhere near the performance of the DSLR's APS-C sensor. Some people obviously consider it a worthwhile set of tradeoffs and to be fair, the G10 does pack a broad range zoom lens into its body that a DSLR would grow much larger to accommodate, but the tradeoff of cost, size and performance just isn't compelling for me.
While still smaller than a DSLR, it's left comfortably pocketable territory and at over $400 street price, it's not a lot less money than a Nikon D40. So, you end up with a deluxe P&S that's too big to pocket comfortably and costs almost as much as a DSLR while being unable to offer anywhere near the performance of the DSLR's APS-C sensor. Some people obviously consider it a worthwhile set of tradeoffs and to be fair, the G10 does pack a broad range zoom lens into its body that a DSLR would grow much larger to accommodate, but the tradeoff of cost, size and performance just isn't compelling for me.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Hi Frank,
I think personally if I was in the market for something small in P/S I would go for the Sigma DP1 ... warts and all.
Then I'd probably get get jacked off with it's short comings and go and get the G10! 😛
I think personally if I was in the market for something small in P/S I would go for the Sigma DP1 ... warts and all.
Then I'd probably get get jacked off with it's short comings and go and get the G10! 😛
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
What are your limited digital needs? I, too, considered this camera. I handled one. It feels well built and ergonomically comfortable but it is large. The flash, I was informed, carried no more than six feet. I, also, read that it does not handle moving subjects well. Luminous Landscapes states that it takes wonderful landscape photos but if you have a medium format then the G10 would be a duplicate. On the positive side it has a very sharp lens and a viewfinder which I find essential to photography...a real step above the p&s's which take 'forever' to focus in daylight when the sun is behind you.
user237428934
User deletion pending
I bought one a week ago as a companion to either my M8 or 40D. Tried the LX3 but for me it's just to small and flimsy. Didn't like the operation of the LX3. So I bought the Canon although its definitely larger. I really like the operation of the G10. Very good screen, like the ISO dial and the compensation dial.
But don't expect any wonders from a tiny P/S sensor. When you are a pixel peeper: keep your hands off. Even at ISO 80 and 100% view you can seen a slight amount of noise. At 200 small details begin to smear and at 400 ISO is getting really bad.
I bought it for good lighting conditions with ISO up to 200. Because the pictures I take with it are rather graphical I can remove grain with Dfine and the loss of details is no problem here.
Pictures on my flick-account taken with the G10
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=24005999@N08&q=G10&m=tags
But don't expect any wonders from a tiny P/S sensor. When you are a pixel peeper: keep your hands off. Even at ISO 80 and 100% view you can seen a slight amount of noise. At 200 small details begin to smear and at 400 ISO is getting really bad.
I bought it for good lighting conditions with ISO up to 200. Because the pictures I take with it are rather graphical I can remove grain with Dfine and the loss of details is no problem here.
Pictures on my flick-account taken with the G10
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=24005999@N08&q=G10&m=tags
FrankS
Registered User
My needs: Film cameras are my primary cameras, 90% B+W, good stuff I'll make wet prints from. Digital would just be for family snaps to send to relatives by email. Also experimental fooling around that would be too expensive with film. If I happened to get something good on the digi, I'd have a supermarket digi print made. I have a perfectly good 6MP Panasonic Lumix DMC-LZ5, but the Canon appeals to the technical part in me with its manual controls. I definitely have no need for a full blown dSLR.
I thought that the Rockwell report on it was informative and well-written.
I thought that the Rockwell report on it was informative and well-written.
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Paul T.
Veteran
I own the G9. It's OK.
really, I'm disappointed that it's SO inferior to an old film P&S like the Olympus Muji. Main problems: pretty terrible barrel distortion. And it's slow, a substantial shutter delay. Noise below 200 ASA is reasonable. Personally, I really wish I'd bought something like the Olympus E420 instead, from what I can tell there's no comparison in terms of image quality.
really, I'm disappointed that it's SO inferior to an old film P&S like the Olympus Muji. Main problems: pretty terrible barrel distortion. And it's slow, a substantial shutter delay. Noise below 200 ASA is reasonable. Personally, I really wish I'd bought something like the Olympus E420 instead, from what I can tell there's no comparison in terms of image quality.
__hh
Well-known
The biggest criticism of the G10 seems to be the cost (e.g. I could buy an entry-level dslr for that price). If you can afford it (or don't mind the price), then I think that the G10 will deliver (and more) according to your happy snap requirements.
FrankS
Registered User
I do like the direction digital P+S cameras are going. I'll probably wait for the G11 or 12 by Canon, or other model by a diff company, hoping for a larger sensor for better low light performance. (less noise)
photogdave
Shops local
Hi Frank,
I've test driven the G10, and the G9 even more, a fair bit. I keep hoping that the lightning bolt will hit me and I'll be able to say "This is the P&S I've been waiting for!". But it hasn't happened yet.
I've really been disappointed with the IQ and the handling. The darn cameras look so cool that I keep second guessing myself but I have to look at it objectively.
There are so many buttons on the back that almost every time I pick it up I accidentally change a setting or open a menu I don't want to use etc.
The lens aperture range is just too slow for the types of subjects I want to be shooting with it.
The optical VF is way off.
If you really need full manual controls on your P&S I'd go with the LX3/DLux 4 for the superior IQ and faster lens. You can add an accessory VF if you really need one.
If those camera don't float your boat I'd look at the Canon A650 instead of the G10. It handles nicer, has an articulated LCD, full manual control, and produces Jpegs just as good as the G10. I have a feeling you won't miss RAW.
As for me, I find manual exposure unnecessary in a P&S so I'm working on my second Pentax waterproof camera. My first one is still going strong but the newest version adds a 5x wide zoom. These are the ultimate fun snap cameras because you can use them anywhere, anytime. You can swim with the sharks and shoot HD video, take it skiing, or let your grand kids fool around with it and drop it in the toilet.
I've test driven the G10, and the G9 even more, a fair bit. I keep hoping that the lightning bolt will hit me and I'll be able to say "This is the P&S I've been waiting for!". But it hasn't happened yet.
I've really been disappointed with the IQ and the handling. The darn cameras look so cool that I keep second guessing myself but I have to look at it objectively.
There are so many buttons on the back that almost every time I pick it up I accidentally change a setting or open a menu I don't want to use etc.
The lens aperture range is just too slow for the types of subjects I want to be shooting with it.
The optical VF is way off.
If you really need full manual controls on your P&S I'd go with the LX3/DLux 4 for the superior IQ and faster lens. You can add an accessory VF if you really need one.
If those camera don't float your boat I'd look at the Canon A650 instead of the G10. It handles nicer, has an articulated LCD, full manual control, and produces Jpegs just as good as the G10. I have a feeling you won't miss RAW.
As for me, I find manual exposure unnecessary in a P&S so I'm working on my second Pentax waterproof camera. My first one is still going strong but the newest version adds a 5x wide zoom. These are the ultimate fun snap cameras because you can use them anywhere, anytime. You can swim with the sharks and shoot HD video, take it skiing, or let your grand kids fool around with it and drop it in the toilet.
FrankS
Registered User
The LX3 does look interesting with a 35mm lens equivalence of 24-60mm and f2/f2.8 wide open.
Like I said, in a few years, digi P+S's may have what I'm looking for.
Like I said, in a few years, digi P+S's may have what I'm looking for.
Michiel Fokkema
Michiel Fokkema
I chose the LX3. based on size, specs and reviews.
it hasn't disappointed me.
Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
it hasn't disappointed me.
Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
FrankS
Registered User
If they could make an LX3 with control dials like the G10 instead of buttons....
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Agreed. That's the only thing I dislike about it. I think it's a great little camera.
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
Hi Frank,
I owned both the G10 and the LX3 recently. I love the ergonomics of the G10... superb dial layout, nice size & shape grip, and the optical viewfinder is acceptable. The build quality of the G10 feels substantial. However, the low-light image files are not nearly as good as the LX3's. That's why I sold it.
Then I bought the LX3. The image files are really good, even in low light. However, we're talking somewhat small sensor here... the low-light image files are not nearly as good as say the mid-range Nikon DSLRs like the D80 (which I also had for a time). The LX3's images are the best you can currently get in a small sensor camera, in my opinion (and in all the reviewer's opinions as well). However the ergonomics didn't do it for me. NO VIEWFINDER! I thought I could live with that, but it just drives me nuts not having one that covers the full range of focal lengths. I tried using a CV finder on it, but that's just one focal length and its never the focal length you want for a shot. And the grip of the LX3 is just way too small. The G10 grip is MUCH better. I sold the LX3 too.
I'm waiting to see what comes out of the micro four-thirds ("MFT") factories in the next year. The Panasonic G1 is pointing in the right direction with its much bigger sensor and a fairly small body and lenses. Olympus is planning on coming out with more MFT cameras and lenses. Hopefully something here will resemble a compact P&S rangefinder camera.... PLEASE!! 🙂
I owned both the G10 and the LX3 recently. I love the ergonomics of the G10... superb dial layout, nice size & shape grip, and the optical viewfinder is acceptable. The build quality of the G10 feels substantial. However, the low-light image files are not nearly as good as the LX3's. That's why I sold it.
Then I bought the LX3. The image files are really good, even in low light. However, we're talking somewhat small sensor here... the low-light image files are not nearly as good as say the mid-range Nikon DSLRs like the D80 (which I also had for a time). The LX3's images are the best you can currently get in a small sensor camera, in my opinion (and in all the reviewer's opinions as well). However the ergonomics didn't do it for me. NO VIEWFINDER! I thought I could live with that, but it just drives me nuts not having one that covers the full range of focal lengths. I tried using a CV finder on it, but that's just one focal length and its never the focal length you want for a shot. And the grip of the LX3 is just way too small. The G10 grip is MUCH better. I sold the LX3 too.
I'm waiting to see what comes out of the micro four-thirds ("MFT") factories in the next year. The Panasonic G1 is pointing in the right direction with its much bigger sensor and a fairly small body and lenses. Olympus is planning on coming out with more MFT cameras and lenses. Hopefully something here will resemble a compact P&S rangefinder camera.... PLEASE!! 🙂
navilluspm
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All I can say is, when it comes to digital P&S, just wait a few more months. The new Fuji EXR sensor looks VERY interesting - especially for low light. If they put a descent lens on the thing, I believe we will be looking at digital P&S camera that will be truly give a lot of cameras a run for their money when it comes to dynamic range, and IQ.
Of course, being Fuji, they probably will do something bone headed to cripple the camera (like have a slow lens, or no IS, or something else)
Something is suppose to be out in the first quarter of this year.
http://www.fujifilm.com/photokina2008/pdf/catalogue/super_ccd_exr.pdf
Here is a link to it.
Of course, being Fuji, they probably will do something bone headed to cripple the camera (like have a slow lens, or no IS, or something else)
Something is suppose to be out in the first quarter of this year.
http://www.fujifilm.com/photokina2008/pdf/catalogue/super_ccd_exr.pdf
Here is a link to it.
FrankS
Registered User
Cool. It looks like the new Fuji has built in HDR. (hyper dynamic range)
marke
Well-known
Jamie, you've pretty much nailed why I haven't upgraded my LX2 or headed for the G10. I've decided that until one of these companies address these significant weakness, I'm just not going to budge on another digital P&S. I refuse to play the game of getting a new camera every year. I didn't upgrade my Canon 10D until this past year, when I decided that the 40D was finally a REAL upgrade at good price.
I guess I would rather just keep shooting my RFs and spend the money on film, than to put money in this annual "recycle-the-digicam" program.
I guess I would rather just keep shooting my RFs and spend the money on film, than to put money in this annual "recycle-the-digicam" program.
Ducky
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I've owned and used a few digi p&s and now own the G-10.
I don't know what all the complaints are about buttons and dials, it's a dig for cryin' out loud what'd you expect. Most are set and forget anyway. Size? I have a Bessa "T" and it's bigger than the G-10. Compared to any FSU I've owned this G-10 is a featherweight.
Lots of good features, various manual settings, full auto if you want it and IT FITS IN A SHIRT POCKET which is more than I can say about DSLRs, SLR, FSUs and any fixed lens RF I've owned.
I also don't need a light meter, rolls of film, multiple lenses or grey card.
It has two custom preset settings which all but eliminates any button and dial use.
Wide lens and decent tele, various resolution settings, and easily transfer of files.
It's also quite pretty.
Did I mention it takes a heck of a picture?
Get it, add a decent printer to keep you out of the supermarkets and away from the candy aisle and you are good to go.
I don't know what all the complaints are about buttons and dials, it's a dig for cryin' out loud what'd you expect. Most are set and forget anyway. Size? I have a Bessa "T" and it's bigger than the G-10. Compared to any FSU I've owned this G-10 is a featherweight.
Lots of good features, various manual settings, full auto if you want it and IT FITS IN A SHIRT POCKET which is more than I can say about DSLRs, SLR, FSUs and any fixed lens RF I've owned.
I also don't need a light meter, rolls of film, multiple lenses or grey card.
It has two custom preset settings which all but eliminates any button and dial use.
Wide lens and decent tele, various resolution settings, and easily transfer of files.
It's also quite pretty.
Did I mention it takes a heck of a picture?
Get it, add a decent printer to keep you out of the supermarkets and away from the candy aisle and you are good to go.
