cleaning marks on DR Summicron - should I return this lens?

[JianL]

Do the flashlight test and also shoot into the sun. I paid 600 Euros in March and mine is as clean as a whistle; not a hint of flare into the sun and like a new lens in a flashlight test.

At one point I thought it was soft at f/2 but that was my rubbish focusing; the USAF lens chart test says it's barely any softer at f/2 thah it is at f/4.

'clean as a whistle' are you sure? From my experience even brand new lenses purchased directly from authorised Leica dealers have dust inside (when a torch is shone through it). Can a decades year old lens really be cleaner than a new one?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The marks shown will not have a visible impact on the images.

Note that a DR Summicron cannot be used on an M8 and M9.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

If you're sure a DR is what you want, shoot it, and you'll see you get from it all you need. Things that would affect IQ are a lot of haze or wild marks on the rear element...

It's a great lens, no doubt... I'd try it...

As Brian said, for sure you know it can't be used on some bodies...


Cheers,

Juan

 

[Beemermark]

It's going to be very difficult to find a DR summicron that looks brand new. If your checking your lenses with a magnifying glass I would suggest you buy a new lens. Otherwise you are always going to be disappointed..

 

[Rayt]

Return it. While scratches and cleaning marks are unavoidable for a lens this old (and for this price) this one is particularly BAD. In fact I bought a Rigid from B&H two months ago rated 8+ for US$500 and it was a bit foggy but hardly any cleaning marks. A CLA took care of of the fog.

 

[waltere]

Hmmm, mine is "new" to me also, and I got it at a really good price...but, I see mine has similiar markings...on frame 24 & will shoot the rest by the week-end...I feel pretty good about it being ok. Have some experience with older lenses like Dagors...hope it will be the same! I just am not getting the " softness while cleaning" stuff with older Crons! Kinda worrisome! I always thought glass was glass!

 

[roundg]

For that price you should have a better product IMO.....send it back.

agree, for the price, I expect a better condition.

 

[splitimageview]

That won't affect photos. It only affects the perceived value of the lens.

There are perfect DR crons out there, you might have to buy 10 to find 1 (similar to what Roland indicated.)

 

[Brian Legge]

Lets play a different game for everyone responding.

If you were selling this lens, how much would you sell it for?

 

[click]

I bought a DR summicron from a member of this board and at first I thought I was making exposure errors with it, then I shot it with a grey card and realized something was wrong and started researching. I figured out that the lens just really needed to be cleaned. These lenses are old and they need some TLC from time to time. I sent it off to DAG and he fixed her right up. The lens now performs flawlessly and I consider it one of the neatest Leica lenses because of the close focusing capability, amazing out of focus areas and it's built like a tank.

My lens looked much like yours and DAG confirmed that there was fungus inside of it. It wasn't prohibitively expensive to clean the lens. In fact I didn't even tell the seller about it.

Why don't you send it off to be inspected by a pro and then consider your options. Maybe the seller will pay for the cleaning or you two can work something out. In optimal condition you will love this lens.

Click

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Lets play a different game for everyone responding.

If you were selling this lens, how much would you sell it for?

I'd sell it saying:

"The price I want is a wonderful 50mm lens a stop faster, new and never used or scratched, aspherical, computer designed, sharp wide open and beyond, and with beautiful bokeh. Nokton 1.5 lenses accepted".

Those are 500 euros new... And can be used on any body, including Barnacks...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[raid]

My rigid Summicron still looks like new.
You may have to look longer, and pay more for such a quality condition lens.
You get what you pay for .... usually.

 

[JohnTF]

Seems expensive for a lens without the goggles, the damage is too much, I would send it back, the loss of the DR goggle also brings up questions, last show a dealer lost one but the guy missed the goggle.

I may see someone tomorrow and ask what the recent wholesale and retail market is like.

Regards, John

 

[rogerzilla]

'clean as a whistle' are you sure? From my experience even brand new lenses purchased directly from authorised Leica dealers have dust inside (when a torch is shone through it). Can a decades year old lens really be cleaner than a new one?

It could already have been cleaned, but whoever cleaned it did a good job. I bought it from a German camera store on eBay. The goggles are perfect too.

The DR is good value among 'crons because it doesn't really work on an M9.

 

[Cagliostro73]

Hi, IMHO cleaning marks are not always a serious issue.
I second the advice of whom told you to shoot a roll first and then decide.
Flare and halo may appear in strong direct sun but you can always avoid them with a shade.
So, try it out first.
I found mine at 400 euros and I was lucky.
Maybe you may trade for some money back instead of a discount.
Good luck!

 

[Moriturii]

The quest for buying a mint perfect lens as this old D/Rigid summicron is futile. It's like buying a Jaguar E type and never ever get a speck of dust or a nick on it ever in any where of the car, it's just extremely unreasonable and the dust what not that you have in your lens WILL NOT effect image quality.

Besides, you can always tear down your lens and clean it with Absolute Vodka / Smirnoff Blue Label, and get it minty clean yourself if it's really in the back of your head for whatever reason still. These old lenses unscrew like a lightbulb.

 

[f16sunshine]

I would keep it if you intend to stay with it for some time. If you only want to have a play and then sell.... send it back. I have one that has coating damage on front and rear elements from fungus. The lens performs as well as the Perfect DR that I sold not long ago to a forum member. Use a shade and common sense and you will be very happy with the results I'm going to guess 🙂

 

[joeswe]

The quest for buying a mint perfect lens as this old D/Rigid summicron is futile. It's like buying a Jaguar E type and never ever get a speck of dust or a nick on it ever in any where of the car, it's just extremely unreasonable and the dust what not that you have in your lens WILL NOT effect image quality.

Besides, you can always tear down your lens and clean it with Absolute Vodka / Smirnoff Blue Label, and get it minty clean yourself if it's really in the back of your head for whatever reason still. These old lenses unscrew like a lightbulb.

First, thanks to everybody for the feedback.

Well, just to put this straight (as the discussion is going into the direction whether I should clean the lens with Wodka or let the dog lick at it), the lens is not hazy or dusty, these are cleaning marks (coating damage) or even "pitting" as someone suggested on the surface of the front lens, so they won't clean away.
Sorry if I made the impression that I am on the quest for an impeccable 100% minty lens. This is not the case. I am not a collector. As stated above, there are two concerns: First, will it show in the pictures (we seem to agree that this can be found out by doing a test roll, which I will shoot later today) and second, was the price (500 Euros) fair when we take these defects into consideration or, to put it in other words, can I expect to get something "better" (=maybe not functionally better, but with a better resale value in the long run) for the same price or is this as good as it gets at the moment? The answers seem to disagree on this, so let me rephrase my question:
If I offered this lens (goggles included and stating the cleaning marks) here on RFF, would 500 Euros be a fair price for you if you were looking for a DR Summicron (for the cosmetics see below)?


L1120589small von eames68 auf Flickr


L1120590small von eames68 auf Flickr

 

[hans voralberg]

It's not worth the trouble returning it to be honest, it's very likely that you won't see any effect whatsoever. Mine has cleaning marks (spirals), that is much much worse, and even then only minor flare.

 

[Ronald_H]

Yes and no.

No because the marks probably won't mean any difference in picture taking and 500 dollars is not outrageous

Yes because I paid about half of what you paid for a crystal clear example of the Summicron DR. Yes, I have been lucky.

That having said, I will never part with my DR, because it is the best lens I have ever used by a very considerable margin. If newer Hexanons and Summicrons are even better, great, but I don't want to spend that much on a lens.