Close-ups of aperture and shutter operation

videogamemaker said:
Another thing I just thought of. This video could be the behavior only in that "ovf with elect" mode the fujiguys spoke of earlier. Where when you half press you get a preview of the exposure (which would require either a digital fake of the aperture affect, or the more likely we are seeing here, a manual closing of the aperture like a dof preview button). It's possible that without that mode enabled (ovf with elect), the aperture only closes upon full shutter press.
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I agree...likely similar to the EVF display in the Pany G1.
 
Frankie said:
Plenty of pictures and videos exist that shows only selected features displayed.

I believe the X100 allows for user selection and [hopefully] display arrangement in the EVF.
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Even 50 dollar pocket cameras have a "disp" button that when you press it toggles between what is displaying, and every single one I've ever picked up has one where you're seeing only the image and no heads up display junk.

Can't we use Occam's Razor to assume things that 99.999999% of all past digital cameras have included? It is without a doubt going to be possible to see the display both on the back of the camera and in the EVF with nothing showing but the live feed. It is without a doubt going to be possible to turn off all audio cues. It's just not going to happen that designers spend the time to make manual knobs and a retro design, but leave out aspects that are just design 101 basics like this.
 
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videogamemaker said:
Even 50 dollar pocket cameras have a "disp" button that when you press it toggles between what is displaying, and every single one I've ever picked up has one where you're seeing only the image and no heads up display junk.

Can't we use Occam's Razor to assume things that 99.999999% of all past digital cameras have included? It is without a doubt going to be possible to see the display both on the back of the camera and in the EVF with nothing showing but the live feed. It is without a doubt going to be possible to turn off all audio cues. It's just not going to happen that designers spend the time to make manual knobs and a retro design, but leave out aspects that are just design 101 basics like this.
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I don't disagree at all.

I spent my career in coaching a team of geeks in photogrammetric software development [replicating complex optical/mechanical instruments with software]. The first task is to identify what the instrument is doing and what other Jones have been doing...even in useless features...then design a better system.

I dare say every camera manufacturer has a log of what has been going on.

To enable/disable a beep, a [shutter] sound or a display is really just flipping electronic toggle switches...but people complained that there are too much/little beeps.

Cell phone makers had it right, down load your own favorite ring tones!
 
Yeah just got this reply to my request as well: @videogamemaker Ok. Monday if time persist.

There really isn't any way to say this without being insulting, but who in their right mind would have made it like that, with the audio cues turned on? I mean, my mom might do it like that, but she isn't a major camera manufacturer affiliate, and she doesn't know how to work video editing software.

How can they be official reps, be given a prototype camera, AND know how to edit video/add logos/music etc, but not think to turn off the most obnoxious sounds that every serious photographer is going to turn off, in a highly anticipated video that is meant to show off the shutter and aperture working? I honestly cannot fathom what was going through their minds.
 
And I was right, there is an artificial shutter sound being played (from fujiguys):

Shutter sound has actually sound plus sound effects from camera's speaker. More videos to come.
 
Huh. Well, happy to be corrected in that case! It's even quieter than I thought, which can only be a good thing...
R
 
NickTrop said:
I actually think I would much prefer to set aperture with a command wheel on the back of the camera, like a DSLR, instead of the lens barrel.
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What? No, I much prefer real physical controls where they are supposed to be. I can't wait for this camera, it's going to get me hooting again. It'll be like using my Petri, but without the hassles of film. I'm hooked.
 
videogamemaker said:
And I was right, there is an artificial shutter sound being played (from fujiguys):

Shutter sound has actually sound plus sound effects from camera's speaker. More videos to come.
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Yuck.. I hate imitation sounds.

Looking forwards to seeing videos with them off.
 
Oh, that shows some heavy lag. Or am I mistaken? If the lag is as bad as it seems, I'll be saving the cash. I need the shutter to trigger the moment I press the shutter. Hmm.
 
Hm - that sounds encouraging. Judging from the volume of the sound generated by just stabbing the shutter (which in reality cannot be that loud), the sound of closing the diaphragm and opening the shutter certainly is pretty silent.

Reminds me a little of my Hexar AF in silent mode, except that there's no film advance whine.
 
_larky said:
Oh, that shows some heavy lag. Or am I mistaken?
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I think you are. This camera uses contrast-detect autofocus, so it will inherently focus before closing its diaphragm. Look again and see how quickly the diaphragm is actuated. That's a mighty short lag.

BTW - did you see the little notice in the viseo at 0:11? I wonder in which way they will be changing the design of the on/off switch and shutter release.
 
jsrockit said:
I just don't see the lag...
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I do. It seems like the camera has to wait for the aperture to close, then the shutter. Does this mean shutter is faster when you shoot wide open at f/2 and the aperture doesn't have to move? and slowest at f/22? I will be shooting at f/2 most of the time, but I'm wondering if there is a mode where it keeps the aperture closed to what it's supposed to be at all times.

But it sure is quiet!
 
The lag is very evident from what I can see, and I agree with videogamemaker's comments above. Maybe we have different ideas of what lag is, that's happened before on this forum :)

But ye, it's very quiet and still looks the part. I'll be shooting manual focus anyway, so if it is the AF causing a lag, MF may resolve that.
 
_larky said:
The lag is very evident from what I can see, and I agree with videogamemaker's comments above. Maybe we have different ideas of what lag is, that's happened before on this forum :)

But ye, it's very quiet and still looks the part. I'll be shooting manual focus anyway, so if it is the AF causing a lag, MF may resolve that.
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Unless it's auto focusing *while* closing the aperture, I don't think it was autofocusing at all in that video.

It looks like you have two stages (in this vid):
1. half press button, and aperture closes (looks like maybe .4-6 seconds)
2. fully depress button, shutter closes, this looks like the advertised .01 seconds shutter lag.

I was thinking about this last night, because at first it really bothered me, but then I remembered most people do some kind of first stage half press (or button if you've moved your AF to a back button), recompose and click. For those who go from nothing to wanting the photo, like most from the hip street shooters, it might be a problem, but for the way I photograph I can imagine it not being too much of a problem.

Then again I might get it in my hands and dislike it. But unlike a dslr, where engaging the aperture with the DOF preview button, since this has an optical viewfinder, there is no reason not to engage the half press/aperture closing as you're setting up the framing and then be ready for the final click, which looks fast indeed.
 
Arjay said:
I think you are. This camera uses contrast-detect autofocus, so it will inherently focus before closing its diaphragm. Look again and see how quickly the diaphragm is actuated. That's a mighty short lag.

BTW - did you see the little notice in the viseo at 0:11? I wonder in which way they will be changing the design of the on/off switch and shutter release.
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I don't think we are seeing AF consuming any time at all in these videos. It's either so fast it's near instantaneous (a good thing) or turned off. The delays are from aperture actuation, then shutter, from the half press to the full press.

I did see the notice, and I'm hoping they make it harder to accidentally turn off. I have noticed that the lower end Canon cameras have the on/off around the shutter, and yes it's closer to your finger to turn on in a hurry, but that also makes it easier to accidentally turn off. I prefer having it on the back bottom area on my 5D, where I turn it on then leave it on while I'm out, and let the sleep mode power-manage. With a lens that doesn't need to extend, and a quick .7 second wake up time, I plan to leave my x100 on while I'm out, and I'd personally like to see the on/off moved somewhere else, but I know that's personal preference. Here's hoping whatever they change the shutter button keeps a thread (I'm sure it will).
 
Shutter lag or not, all we can deduce from the video at the moment is the shutter has a two stage action [common in AE shutters]:
  • Stage 1 - stop down diaphragm, maybe also last autonomic acquisition of AE and AF data...or via AEL/AFL command.
  • Stage 2 - shutter closes, then fires [and close after shutter duration], then open again.
According to Fuji, shutter lag is in the order of 0.01s, that is Action 1 and part of Action 2 [shutter closes] has to be completed in ~10ms. The video looks about right.

Action 2 duration is largely dependent on what shutter speed was set. Even a 1/30s [33ms] shutter speed will make the whole action look slow.

When I get around to it, I can take the whole video duration and isolate Stage 1 and Stage 2 duration......

I am satisfied that the X100 seems fast enough...and sounds OK as well.
 
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