Contax II problems after new ribbons

[micromoogman]

Hi,

I had a nice working Contax II from 1939, that suddenly stopped working. I took the cover for the curtains off and saw that one of the ribbons was broken. I bought new Arsenal-type from Russia (or was it Ukraina?) and installed them according to Rick Oleson's page and Zorki cat pages. Tricky but it worked.
But when I should tighten the springs for the curtain, I noticed that one of the ribbon's spring had more tension to start with. I thought both should be eqaully loose before going further. So I tried different ways to "reset" the springs, holding the first curtain with a stop and move the other direction etc. without success.
I believe I might have overtighten the spring, or springs, because now the primary curtain doesn't wind up like it should. Secondary curtain seems to be working like it should. Is there a separate spring for the primary curtain? How do I disassembly the whole axle with springs and all? I believe if the spring is not broken it might have came loose from its original position... Any help considering this would be appreciated.

Thanks
Jonas

 

[silvano]

Hi,
Perhaps you can find this website interesting:
http://www.zeisscamera.com/first.shtml

Silvano

 

[micromoogman]

Thanks, but I didn't find anything really connected to this problem. I have a picture though that shows that there is a main spring inside the drum.

 

[dirbel]

The Arsenal ribbons are too thick for the Contax shutter (guess how I found out).

You can get suitable material from micro-tools or aki-asahi. It's black and may be not as durable as the original material. Maybe someone who uses his Contax frequently can comment on this, I rarely use mine (and hadn't problems so far).

Cheers,

Dirk

 

[micromoogman]

I thought Aki-Asahi were too thin? I have read that many people are using the Arsenal ribbon without problems. The stupid thing is that when I changed just one ribbon it worked perfectly, but just for the sake of having two new I lost it all...

 

[Highway 61]

As ever this clearly shows the limitations of the Internet forums and the search engines embedded within those forums, because this very matter has been discussed dozens of times here already so the OP would have saved his time if he had found the proper information before trying to fix his camera with unproper material. :bang:

So :

1/the Arsenal ribbon is too thick for the original Contax shutter, it must NOT be used in a Contax shutter - no way

2/the silk ribbon sold by Aki Asahi is the perfect fit, it's probably the ribbon used by the man who tells he's the Contax guru (you don't find many types of 3mm silk ribbon in Japan), the only caveat is that the first curtain clutches have to be bent just a bit so that the ribbon has some friction

3/Let's have a dream where nobody would send the OP to that guru's website before trying to help another way

4/Rick Oleson has published a very detailed sketch of the Contax II bottom roller drum internal assembly : there are three springs, one center spring (main, adjustable) and two side springs (passive, unadjustable) ; this sketch has been published here already

Overtensioning the main spring always leads to break it, as a result only the side springs wind the bottom roller up, but in this case the shutter cannot work any longer.

The only solution is to replace the bottom roller with a spare Kiev one, the ebay seller named "Alex-Foto" in the Ukraine used to sell some.

 

[micromoogman]

OK. Give me the proper link to the detailed sketch of the roller drum, please. It's not easily found on his page. And if this issue is so frequent, why not make a sticky thread on it? So we have all needed information gathered? I am learning me with trial and error, and I will have it fixed with or without other's help.
Oh, and by the way Peter Hennig is using Zavod Arsenal. I bought my band from Alex-Photo, maybe it's the right one after all...

Thanks

 

[S.H.]

Is it this link ? http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-24.html

 

[micromoogman]

Nope, I have that too. And it's showing that you should tension the springs the wrong way, clockwise and not anticlockwise.

 

[Crazy Fedya]

I have a similar problem with my Contax III, and I have searched the web on a topic of removal lower curtain roller and replacement of the spring, but haven't found anything.I would like the link to Rick Oleson's page or anyone else'e, that discusses this issue.
On the other hand, I might just sell the body with the problem.

 

[Highway 61]

OK. Give me the proper link to the detailed sketch of the roller drum, please. It's not easily found on his page. And if this issue is so frequent, why not make a sticky thread on it? So we have all needed information gathered? I am learning me with trial and error, and I will have it fixed with or without other's help.
Oh, and by the way Peter Hennig is using Zavod Arsenal. I bought my band from Alex-Photo, maybe it's the right one after all...

Thanks

Here you go, as said yesterday this is not a link on Rick's website but a thread of this very forum :

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98876

Note that a broken main spring inside the drum roller cannot be repaired while an unhooked one can be. Tricky, but it can be re-hooked. But when it fails, most of the chances are that it's broken, it's made of very think steel wire and overtensioning it breaks it quite immediatly.

Again : the Arsenal ribbon is thicker than the original Contax ribbon, you cannot use some Arsenal ribbon in a Contax II shutter without replacing the 1st curtain clutches with some Kiev parts (which can be done but I wouldn't encourage you to take apart the shutter curtain blades, this is very risky for the tiny leather cords which run under the blades ends folds).

Using some Aki-Asahi ribbon and bending the clutches a little bit so that the ribbon slides through them with a bit of friction is the best solution to properly fix a prewar Contax shutter.

ZorkiKat had tested this ribbon durability by actuating the shutter hundreds of time and it appears that this ribbon is very steady actually.

 

[micromoogman]

I would like to know how to re-hook the main spring. My last chance.

 

[Highway 61]

Here you go - but it'll be easier to cannibalize a Kiev shutter with a good drum.

 

[Grytpype]

micromoogman, I posted on your thread in the FSU forum (so you lied about the camera being a Kiev 4!!). I attached a picture of the partly dismantled spindle (from a Kiev), which I've also attached below, but I've inverted it so that the right of the picture corresponds to the right of the camera. If you PM me your email address I'll send you a text file of the notes I made when I stripped a Kiev 4A (so that I could get it back together again).

I really do not think it is a practical possibility to replace the springs (I'll explain if you want), but IF the centre spring has simply come unhooked you might be able to fix it.

Steve.

 

[Crazy Fedya]

Thanks, everybody for all of this info, but I was wondering, how do I take first curtain out to replace it?

 

[micromoogman]

micromoogman, I posted on your thread in the FSU forum (so you lied about the camera being a Kiev 4!!). I attached a picture of the partly dismantled spindle (from a Kiev), which I've also attached below, but I've inverted it so that the right of the picture corresponds to the right of the camera. If you PM me your email address I'll send you a text file of the notes I made when I stripped a Kiev 4A (so that I could get it back together again).

I really do not think it is a practical possibility to replace the springs (I'll explain if you want), but IF the centre spring has simply come unhooked you might be able to fix it.

Steve.

Heh, no I have a Kiev from 1959 that I was thinking to take the parts from. I will, if not the re-hooking works, use the lower drum+curtain from the Kiev. That Kiev is just as good as my COntax was so it's really stupid.
Thanks for help.

 

[micromoogman]

Here you go - but it'll be easier to cannibalize a Kiev shutter with a good drum.

Thanks! Do you have the instructions as well? Can I use the Kiev drum with lower curtain as is?

 

[sevo]

Thanks! Do you have the instructions as well? Can I use the Kiev drum with lower curtain as is?

If the Kiev has a good shutter, it would probably be more advisable to transplant the entire shutter assembly.

 

[micromoogman]

But is it a Kiev or a Contax then? I would have problems selling it as a Contax that way.

 

[sevo]

But is it a Kiev or a Contax then? I would have problems selling it as a Contax that way.

It is a chimera. But it is a better defined and more easily reversible chimera than a Kiev drum Contax. If you sell it, sell the original shutter along with it, and the buyer can revert it to a 100% original and non-functional Contax within an hour...