Highway 61
Revisited
Fitting a good Kiev drum at the bottom of the Contax shutter is very easy - those parts are 100% identical, you just have to unglue the felt used as a brake on the Kiev drum and glue the leather used on the Contax drum instead. The Contax shutter won't work at its best with the felt brake.
Fitting a whole Kiev shutter unit in a Contax casting sounds easy but it can be very tricky, sometimes there are some sensible variations of shutter boxes sizes, and the Kiev shutter will be prone to bounce once installed in the Contax chassis. If the Contax shutter blades are nice, and if the only problems are the ribbons and a faulty drum, it's worth installing new ribbons (given that you don't use some Arsenal ones) and a good drum on the original shutter.
Especially if you consider that eldest Kiev shutters (the best, mechanically wise) will probably suffer from a ribbons break sooner or later as well.
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
micromoogman -- my thoughts are with you. I have been in a similar situation (not with a Contax) ... following dead-ends and incorrect information online to 'repair' a camera. I ended up destroying the rangefinder assembly of a Bessa R3A in an attempt to fix the vertical alignment of the RF patch. I was not happy.
Best of luck with your repair. The Contax is a beautiful camera. I have a Contax IIa and it is one of my favourite cameras.
Best of luck with your repair. The Contax is a beautiful camera. I have a Contax IIa and it is one of my favourite cameras.
Highway 61
Revisited
Below for display is my original 1938 Contax shutter unit shot during the repair curse I performed on it some years ago.
- the original left ribbon is still in place but is about to be removed and replaced
- a new acetate right ribbon is being stitched
- a new bottom roller drum assembly coming from a Kiev is ready to be installed, and the original leather brake is ready to be glued on the drum.
All the information used to repair it was found online and none drove me into a "dead-end"...
The camera is sparkling (a total teardown allowed me to clean it deeply, and to lubricate the helicoid etc) and is still working like a charm. And the lone non-original parts are the ribbons and the lower curtain drum...
To remove the defective drum, you just have to remove the side caps of the ribbon rollers (as shown on Rick's sketch posted above), then carefully slide the curtain off the drum slit. Installing the "new" drum is done in the reverse order.
Caveat : doing this, take great care not to separate the last shutter blades from the other ones. The most fragile part of the Contax/Kiev shutter is the brass blade end fold - once unfolded, you can fold it back only once before it breaks. And in case one blade gets off the curtain global alignment, it can also break the very thin leather cord which runs under the blades ends folds. So : carefully, carefully, carefully.
Other than that, nothing to fear.
Removing the ribbons rollers side caps also make the installation of the new ribbon much easier, because then you just slide the ribbon loop into the roller slit, you dont have to insert and fish the ribbon's end fiddling with the roller spring.
With the rollers caps off, you can even stitch the ribbon loop before installing the ribbon loop into the roller slit. If the ribbon loop has a good fold, well marked by the pliers, it makes the whole job almost easy...
- the original left ribbon is still in place but is about to be removed and replaced
- a new acetate right ribbon is being stitched
- a new bottom roller drum assembly coming from a Kiev is ready to be installed, and the original leather brake is ready to be glued on the drum.
All the information used to repair it was found online and none drove me into a "dead-end"...
The camera is sparkling (a total teardown allowed me to clean it deeply, and to lubricate the helicoid etc) and is still working like a charm. And the lone non-original parts are the ribbons and the lower curtain drum...
To remove the defective drum, you just have to remove the side caps of the ribbon rollers (as shown on Rick's sketch posted above), then carefully slide the curtain off the drum slit. Installing the "new" drum is done in the reverse order.
Caveat : doing this, take great care not to separate the last shutter blades from the other ones. The most fragile part of the Contax/Kiev shutter is the brass blade end fold - once unfolded, you can fold it back only once before it breaks. And in case one blade gets off the curtain global alignment, it can also break the very thin leather cord which runs under the blades ends folds. So : carefully, carefully, carefully.
Other than that, nothing to fear.
Removing the ribbons rollers side caps also make the installation of the new ribbon much easier, because then you just slide the ribbon loop into the roller slit, you dont have to insert and fish the ribbon's end fiddling with the roller spring.
With the rollers caps off, you can even stitch the ribbon loop before installing the ribbon loop into the roller slit. If the ribbon loop has a good fold, well marked by the pliers, it makes the whole job almost easy...
Elmar Lang
Well-known
Hello,
just a question: where do the very fine drawing of post #12 come from?
Many thanks in advance,
E.L.
just a question: where do the very fine drawing of post #12 come from?
Many thanks in advance,
E.L.
micromoogman
Well-known
I got it, along with an article about this shutter, from Peter Hennig here in Sweden. It was published in the Journal of Zeiss Historica Society, vol. 24, no1, 2002. He has written books about Contax and Kiev. I have an pdf-file but I don't have his permission to share it.
Elmar Lang
Well-known
Thank you very much anyways for the info.
E.L.
E.L.
micromoogman
Well-known
Thanks for help all! I have now a delicate job to put the spring back to work... It looks really bad. It was broken at the anchor point, but that's at least the most fortunate place. Plan B, the most probable, will be to chop a Kiev for parts.
BTW, Rick Oleson has a massive documentation for the job, with the complete disassembly of the lower drum.
BTW, Rick Oleson has a massive documentation for the job, with the complete disassembly of the lower drum.
Highway 61
Revisited
Of course he has
Well the center spring has the typical look of an overtensioned one, another good drum coming from a Kiev shutter will be the best option.
Caveat : buy several Kiev shutter curtains assemblies. To fix my Contax shutter I had bought two Kiev shutter assemblies, that was wise because one drum was in the same condition as my (your) Contax one...
Example of an interesting buy : eBay 350361150000
Good luck with the repair, nothing that can't be done.
Elmar Lang
Well-known
I remember that in the past, it was possible to find some interesting wooden boxes full of original spare parts for rangefinder Kievs, each piece well packed and labelled with its part-no.
micromoogman
Well-known
Of course he has
Well the center spring has the typical look of an overtensioned one, another good drum coming from a Kiev shutter will be the best option.
Caveat : buy several Kiev shutter curtains assemblies. To fix my Contax shutter I had bought two Kiev shutter assemblies, that was wise because one drum was in the same condition as my (your) Contax one...
Example of an interesting buy : eBay 350361150000
Good luck with the repair, nothing that can't be done.
Well, that information wasn't exactly readily available...
I took the spring off the spindle, carefully bending it to look something close to the original appearance. Not a chance it's possible, but close enough and it might go was my thought. And lo and behold, mine worked. At least so so. As you correctly pointed out ten times, the ribbons sits too tight... I will buy from Aki-Asahi instead. I will mount it and test drive it harder to see if those ribbons will "burn in"...
Thanks, I will check that Ebay auction too.
micromoogman
Well-known
micromoogman
Well-known
Update, it's slipping again. I'll wait for a Kiev... *sigh*
Elmar Lang
Well-known
I don't know where they are now...
I know the whereabouts of two of them: in my collection. One still closed and originally factory sealed; another one, opened, but kept complete.
Let's say in 1993-96 they were realtively easy to find at one of our local flea markets, located in Piazzola sul Brenta (province of Padua, Italy), where people from Eastern Europe had their tables, selling any type of ex-USSR camera. I can't forget that one day, I missed to buy a complete, soviet "Reporter" outfit in the original leather case, with "pasport" and instructions...
I know the whereabouts of two of them: in my collection. One still closed and originally factory sealed; another one, opened, but kept complete.
Let's say in 1993-96 they were realtively easy to find at one of our local flea markets, located in Piazzola sul Brenta (province of Padua, Italy), where people from Eastern Europe had their tables, selling any type of ex-USSR camera. I can't forget that one day, I missed to buy a complete, soviet "Reporter" outfit in the original leather case, with "pasport" and instructions...
Crazy Fedya
Well-known
I am sorry, if i come across thick-headed, but I still don't understand how do I remove first curtain with the drum from shutter crate?
micromoogman
Well-known
Push the axle from left to right. Pop out the bushing at the right hand side, which makes clearance for swinging out the drum.
------
"I would recommend the Arsenal ribbon, I think it's probably about as good as anything you'll find"
Rick Oleson via mail...
Highway 61
Revisited
When nothing else can be sourced the Arsenal ribbon can be used in a Contax shutter but you will have to modify the 1st curtain clutches so that there is less friction there. Fiddly and risky, because that part is very fragile.
Using Aki-Asahi ribbon and bending the clutches bars a bit downwards so that you add friction is easy, so the Japanese ribbon is a way better option.
Use the forum search engine and get ZorkiKat's threads back, especially the one in which he explained that he had tested the black silk ribbon durability with great success.
Using Aki-Asahi ribbon and bending the clutches bars a bit downwards so that you add friction is easy, so the Japanese ribbon is a way better option.
Use the forum search engine and get ZorkiKat's threads back, especially the one in which he explained that he had tested the black silk ribbon durability with great success.
Dez
Bodger Extraordinaire
Not thick headed at all. It is quite a delicate operation. It is very well explained in a Hove Book by Peter Tooke, titled Zeiss Contax Repair Manual Models II and III. There is a lot of good information there, and has saved me from costly errors a number of times.
Once the roller is out of the camera (and note carefully any shimming on its axle)and the shutter tapes have been removed from the roller, take the setscrew out of the right hand tape drum cap, and remove the cap. Carefully remove the leather piece, and loosten, but do not completely remove the four screws holding the internal bits into the roller. Carefully slide the curtain assembly toward the end where you have removed the cap. It will fit through the gap in the tape drum with the removed cap. You might want to consider running the curtain through an ultrasonic cleaner if it is not completely supple. Then remove the four screws and gently push the inner assemble ou the same end as the curtain. You will find gently prying the slot apart with a knife blade to be very helpful here. I agree that substituting the roller assembly from a Kiev, hopefully an older one, is the way to go. Don't feel squeamish about it- the original Contax part is no better than the Kiev one. The center spring in your picture is definitely beyond hope. Getting the internal collars lined up so you can put the screws back in is a vocabulary-builder.
When you put everything back together, all the springs need to be wound completely down so when tensioned they are even. That's what makes replacing just one shutter tape generally not a great idea. Oh yes, and wind the screw conterclockwise in a Contax 2 or 3, and clockwise (at the other end) in a Contax 1, if you are foolhardy enough to dig into one of those.
Tension the springs to the smallest amount you can get away with. Tooke recommends 200 gm force on a spring gauge, with the shutter wound most of the way to the top of the aperture.
Good luck!
Cheers,
Dez
Dez
Bodger Extraordinaire
Be careful with that. Check the amount of friction you had with the original tape, and make SURE you have no more with the replacement tape.
Cheers,
Dez
Crazy Fedya
Well-known
Tried this, couldn't do it. I think I will just sell the Contax II with the problem. I don't want to screw it up. Thanks for your help