captainslack
Five Goats Hunter
I've got a FED and a Zorki. Both are nice cameras and the lens fit my Bessa-T and, eventually, the Leica I want to buy.
Recently, I got to use my father-in-law's Zeiss Ikon Contessa. This is a small folding RF, which was more of a precision machine than a camera body. Its Tessar lens also took some really, really sharp pictures. This has gotten me thinking Contax and its more affordable cousin, the Kiev.
I've been researching different models on CameraQuest and window-shopping on the Bay. (Bad idea, I know. Had to restain myself from getting a Kiev 2 alex-photo was selling for $73.) What's really stopping me from just getting one, aside from being flat broke, is that I'd be stepping into a totally new lens mount system and I don't know if I should take that leap. Especially since I've never handled one of these beasties before and I'm loathe to spend money I don't really have on a camera body I may not like.
So, I guess I'm looking for opinions here. If I do decide to take the jump, which model should I get? I'm thinking the Kiev 4a. A Kiev 2 would be better, but I can't afford that. I don't really like any of the one's with the meter on top. It tends to ruin the lines of the camera, IMO.
Recently, I got to use my father-in-law's Zeiss Ikon Contessa. This is a small folding RF, which was more of a precision machine than a camera body. Its Tessar lens also took some really, really sharp pictures. This has gotten me thinking Contax and its more affordable cousin, the Kiev.
I've been researching different models on CameraQuest and window-shopping on the Bay. (Bad idea, I know. Had to restain myself from getting a Kiev 2 alex-photo was selling for $73.) What's really stopping me from just getting one, aside from being flat broke, is that I'd be stepping into a totally new lens mount system and I don't know if I should take that leap. Especially since I've never handled one of these beasties before and I'm loathe to spend money I don't really have on a camera body I may not like.
So, I guess I'm looking for opinions here. If I do decide to take the jump, which model should I get? I'm thinking the Kiev 4a. A Kiev 2 would be better, but I can't afford that. I don't really like any of the one's with the meter on top. It tends to ruin the lines of the camera, IMO.
JoeFriday
Agent Provacateur
I picked up two Kiev 4a's based on the same thoughts you're now going through.. in fact, I bought one of them from alex-photo.. great seller.. I believe I got the camera in less than two weeks
the Kievs are a little different than the Zorki and FEDs.. obviously the lens mounting is unique.. but the Kievs also don't employ framelines.. they're optimized for 50mm shooting.. another difference is the "Contax grip" that you'll have to adapt to in order not to cover the focusing patch window.. it's pretty easy to get used to.. pretty much, everything about the Kiev is easy to get used to.. I love mine.. the only thing I wish were different is the frameline omission
I personally think it's worth spending $50 on a 4a with a Jupiter 8 or a Helios, if only to find out for yourself if they're for you.. they take great photos... assuming you get a good one
the Kievs are a little different than the Zorki and FEDs.. obviously the lens mounting is unique.. but the Kievs also don't employ framelines.. they're optimized for 50mm shooting.. another difference is the "Contax grip" that you'll have to adapt to in order not to cover the focusing patch window.. it's pretty easy to get used to.. pretty much, everything about the Kiev is easy to get used to.. I love mine.. the only thing I wish were different is the frameline omission
I personally think it's worth spending $50 on a 4a with a Jupiter 8 or a Helios, if only to find out for yourself if they're for you.. they take great photos... assuming you get a good one
ErnestoJL
Well-known
I bought my Kiev 4 during 1982, and I did it thinking it was a discardabñe camera, it is something I won´t miss if broken or lost, specially thinking it was just a Contax copy, not the real thing.
It took just 36 Ektachrome exposures to tell me that I was absolutely wrong in respect of my feelings with this camera. The J8 is superb, something I´ve never suspected about.
From my original thoughts, to the day of today, I just can tell that I´ve ordered another 4 or 4a with a J8, just to have two... even if the lens mount is compatible with Contax only.
It is a camera you´ll love as soon as you put your hands on, even being not a ZI Contax!!
Good luck!!
It took just 36 Ektachrome exposures to tell me that I was absolutely wrong in respect of my feelings with this camera. The J8 is superb, something I´ve never suspected about.
From my original thoughts, to the day of today, I just can tell that I´ve ordered another 4 or 4a with a J8, just to have two... even if the lens mount is compatible with Contax only.
It is a camera you´ll love as soon as you put your hands on, even being not a ZI Contax!!
Good luck!!
captainslack
Five Goats Hunter
Zorki's & FED's don't have framelines either. Least not the one's I've used (FED 2d & Zorki 4). Do any FSU cameras have them???
W
wlewisiii
Guest
“This is not a Soviet camera - it is a German camera, made in the Soviet Union” That quote from http://www.cameraquest.com/zconrfKiev.htm comes as close as anything I've ever read to expressing what a Kiev is as well as what it isn't.
A good Kiev is a world class camera. The problem is that they aren't all good. Buy one from a reputable seller (I prefer Fedka http://www.fedka.com/catalog/ More expensive but the customer service is well worth the money) and you'll get a chance to have a wonderful camera with some really marvellous lenses.
I love mine.
William
A good Kiev is a world class camera. The problem is that they aren't all good. Buy one from a reputable seller (I prefer Fedka http://www.fedka.com/catalog/ More expensive but the customer service is well worth the money) and you'll get a chance to have a wonderful camera with some really marvellous lenses.
I love mine.
William
David Holko
Newbie
Hello, I had a 4a and a 4 for a short while, and having rather big hands, I could not quit putting my fingers over the glass on the right hand side range finder window. Got frustrated and sold them, I like the bessa r3a even over a M6. There's my two cents worth.
R
ruben
Guest
Hi Captain,
At cameraquest you can read an asonishing article about the Kiev history and models. In principle the erliest Kievs the better and most beautifuly finnished. I got a 2a from one of the two most respected sellers, and the camera is perfectly adjusted and smooth to operate. Nevertheless, once in a trip abroad the little handle catching the 50mm lens, the J-8, just fell somewhere. And before that, just upon two weeks of receipt, the flash connection went disconnected. It arrived ok but after a little use it went disconnected. They are TOO old. Another practical problem of the most older models is that the low base of the body, whith the protruding shoe, are a bit problematic for adjusting a flash bracket.
But a good compromise between those extremely beautiful models and latest extremely ugly and simplified models, is in my opinion to have a good one (= $70 ~90) produced between 1960 and 1969.
Kindly pay attention that I am not saying at all that these models left the factory indiscriminately well working, but this is true for all Kiev models. Therefore I recommed to pay a bit more out of their miserable low price and purchase your Kiev from those dealers checking AND FIXING BEFOREHAND what they sell and giving specific warranty, like Sovietcamera in Ukraine, and others of the like.
With a well working Kiev at your hand you indeed will feel you have paid a miserable low price for such a treasure.
Cheers,
Ruben
At cameraquest you can read an asonishing article about the Kiev history and models. In principle the erliest Kievs the better and most beautifuly finnished. I got a 2a from one of the two most respected sellers, and the camera is perfectly adjusted and smooth to operate. Nevertheless, once in a trip abroad the little handle catching the 50mm lens, the J-8, just fell somewhere. And before that, just upon two weeks of receipt, the flash connection went disconnected. It arrived ok but after a little use it went disconnected. They are TOO old. Another practical problem of the most older models is that the low base of the body, whith the protruding shoe, are a bit problematic for adjusting a flash bracket.
But a good compromise between those extremely beautiful models and latest extremely ugly and simplified models, is in my opinion to have a good one (= $70 ~90) produced between 1960 and 1969.
Kindly pay attention that I am not saying at all that these models left the factory indiscriminately well working, but this is true for all Kiev models. Therefore I recommed to pay a bit more out of their miserable low price and purchase your Kiev from those dealers checking AND FIXING BEFOREHAND what they sell and giving specific warranty, like Sovietcamera in Ukraine, and others of the like.
With a well working Kiev at your hand you indeed will feel you have paid a miserable low price for such a treasure.
Cheers,
Ruben
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reagan
hey, they're only Zorkis
Hey Cap ~ back a few months ago, I inquired about Kiev 4a and 4am in a thread that had some pretty good food for thought... nuggets like, "i think the one with the meter on top is butt ugly." (backalley photo ) Ha!!
Anyway, I saved it for future reference. Check it out here.
) Ha!!Anyway, I saved it for future reference. Check it out here.
captainslack
Five Goats Hunter
CVBLZ4 said:"i think the one with the meter on top is butt ugly." (backalley photo
Can't say as I disagree with him!!!!
kiev4a
Well-known
captainslack said:
The Leningrad has framelines and the Droug may have them, too although I've never handled one. But I don't know anyone who has ever shot film with a 'grad either. They are more for display--complicated to load.
I have two Kiev 4s , a '71 and a '77. The '71 is the older style with the lump next to the lens mount. It puts about 1/2 in. of space between frames and I've never figured out why. The '77 does a good job b I have to be careful to avoid light leaks in the back--acommon problem. I've never quite got used to the "Contax Grip"--constantly sticking a finger in front of the viewfinder window.
This PHOTO was shot with a Kiev 4A at Boulder Dam
W
wlewisiii
Guest
If you want framelines, then the best FSU camera to get is a good Kiev 5. Yes, despite the bad press that camera gets, it is very possible as I have one. Mine is a 1972 model and has framelines for 50mm and 85mm (earlier models only had one for 50mm) and the whole of the finder is a very good approximation of the 35mm FOV. Plus the RF patch will work as an approximation for the 135mm lens (be aware that the farther from the subject you are, the better. Parallax... ) Just find a user rather than a mint camera and I think you'll be plesantly surprised by the best finder on any Contax family camera.
I think that it bears repeating - always look for user Kievs. Unless you have a reciept for a CLA by Henry Scherer or Oleg, a pretty Kiev is a camera that was tossed into a dresser drawer because it never worked. The ones that came from the factory good were _used_. Sometimes very hard and those are in rough shape. But a basic user can be found - it won't be perfect, but it will _work_. For most of us at RFF that's the higher virtue
William
I think that it bears repeating - always look for user Kievs. Unless you have a reciept for a CLA by Henry Scherer or Oleg, a pretty Kiev is a camera that was tossed into a dresser drawer because it never worked. The ones that came from the factory good were _used_. Sometimes very hard and those are in rough shape. But a basic user can be found - it won't be perfect, but it will _work_. For most of us at RFF that's the higher virtue
William
ScottS
Established
kiev4a said:
I got a Leningrad along with a lot of several FSU cameras (others were Feds and Zorkis). The Leningrad is by far the most interesting of the bunch. If I can ever figure out how to resolve the frame spacing issue, I imagine I'd use it quite a bit. I like the framelines, and I like the "15 shots without having to wind" feature. But as of yet, I don't develop my own, and I fear my prints getting totally botched at a lab due to the uneven per-negative spacing.
Scott
FrankS
Registered User
I can distinctly remember when I first held my Kiev 4am (from Nick F) to my eye. I could not for the life of me see the rangefinder patch. I thought, oh great, it's defective, then it gradually dawned on me that I was just blocking the RF window with my finger.
Capi, I think it is totally insane and crazy to invest in a whole new lens mount system of the Kiev/Contax.
Welcome to the asylum!
Capi, I think it is totally insane and crazy to invest in a whole new lens mount system of the Kiev/Contax.
Welcome to the asylum!
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wyk_penguin
Well-known
Did you get the Bessa R2C?ErnestoJL said:
back alley
IMAGES
I think it is totally insane and crazy to invest in a whole new lens mount system of the Kiev/Contax.
and for the second time, i am in complete agreement with frank!!
joe
and for the second time, i am in complete agreement with frank!!
joe
W
wlewisiii
Guest
"Capi, I think it is totally insane and crazy to invest in a whole new lens mount system" Oh that's so true...
Huh? What? Oh, you _already_ have those _other_ lenses. Oh, I'm so sorry. I couldn't imagine that...
<LOL>
Huh? What? Oh, you _already_ have those _other_ lenses. Oh, I'm so sorry. I couldn't imagine that...
<LOL>
ErnestoJL
Well-known
For WYK_PENGUIN
No, unfortunately, I never had any Bessa R in my hands..... probably the day I put my dirty hand on a Bessa I would start to forget the Kiev and Contaxes... even Leicas too!
I´ve seen the pictures of both models (say R2a and R3a), and I would say today that those beauties will be my next crazy wish (in fact the R3a is it today).
Unfortunately, in my country those cameras would go for a rather higher price than in the US, just for being Voigtländer and Leica competitors. This means that a USD 500 camera in the US weill go for USD 800 in local prices.
I don not think about Leicas even having had an M6 in my hands for a while....too expensive for me!
Reading specs for the Bessas, means (for me) falling in love with a really nice camera at an affordable price. Hope I earn enough to buy one!! Menawhile, I´ll keep the beauties I have
and use today.
Best regards!
No, unfortunately, I never had any Bessa R in my hands..... probably the day I put my dirty hand on a Bessa I would start to forget the Kiev and Contaxes... even Leicas too!
I´ve seen the pictures of both models (say R2a and R3a), and I would say today that those beauties will be my next crazy wish (in fact the R3a is it today).
Unfortunately, in my country those cameras would go for a rather higher price than in the US, just for being Voigtländer and Leica competitors. This means that a USD 500 camera in the US weill go for USD 800 in local prices.
I don not think about Leicas even having had an M6 in my hands for a while....too expensive for me!
Reading specs for the Bessas, means (for me) falling in love with a really nice camera at an affordable price. Hope I earn enough to buy one!! Menawhile, I´ll keep the beauties I have
and use today.
Best regards!
XAos
Well-known
Most of the FSU web pages I've found are great about details of specific cameras, but they're all geared at collecting, assuming that you would want one of each variation without regard for differences between them. Is there a good FSU comparison for user cameras? If I'm entertaining the pretense that one is sufficient, what should I look for?
Duncan Ross
Say it with flashbulbs
XAos said:
For a long time the only FSU camera I had was the Kiev, and it would be the one I would keep if the wife got her way. There is something strange about the Kiev/Contax experience - it's the camera equivalent of playing golf. Everyone else looks on in distain at golfers trudging around in the rain trying to get a white ball into a hole using tools least well designed for the task, but they love it.
Just got my holiday pictures back. When you get your first film you'll understand why people play golf!!
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
I now have two Kievs--a '67 vintage 4a[my first FSU camera] and a maybe '68 vintage 4(it's been turned into a fake contax)-- and am very happy with both of them!
The "contax" is metered and until I held this one, I also thought the metered Kievs were ugly. BUT the meter is much smaller in real life than it ever seemed to be in the pictures I had seen of these.
I'm going through the Contax/LTM mount quandry now and haven't yet decided to pick one system over the other. So far, I have mostly chosen to not worry about it and simply look for the best lenses I can afford in each mount and then use whichever camera holds the lens I want to use.
I am saving my nickels for a real Contax but that's not happening any time soon.
Get a Kiev from Oleg or Fedka and you'll be happy, I think!
Rob
The "contax" is metered and until I held this one, I also thought the metered Kievs were ugly. BUT the meter is much smaller in real life than it ever seemed to be in the pictures I had seen of these.
I'm going through the Contax/LTM mount quandry now and haven't yet decided to pick one system over the other. So far, I have mostly chosen to not worry about it and simply look for the best lenses I can afford in each mount and then use whichever camera holds the lens I want to use.
I am saving my nickels for a real Contax but that's not happening any time soon.
Get a Kiev from Oleg or Fedka and you'll be happy, I think!
Rob