back alley
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very nice shots bmoc, love the 3rd, woman on train, shot.
CV 21/4 Color-Skopar Opinions
- Thread starter Rafael
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back alley
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geez, now i want a 21!
damn you people...
damn you people...
back alley
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do ya think a 21 is different enough from a 25 to warrant having one?
joe
joe
Dougg
Seasoned Member
Nice shots, all! Ralph I'm again admiring your double-stroller lady. BMOC, on that last one with the RR tracks... I detect a slight barrel distortion in the lower rails, and now that I look back there might be a hint of that in the vertical conduits near your guy between the walls. Funny how the eye can pick up just a trace of this when there's the straight photo edge parallel to it for comparison.
chug
I wear pants
Don't forget about the CV 15mm lens, its bloody good too. 🙂
Sonnar2
Well-known
My first C/V lens was the 15mm, back in 1999. Later I've got the 1.7/35 for my Bessa-R, and need a lense in between. My first choice was excellent sharp 4/25 but I was annoyed by the fact that this was my only RF lens which was non-coupled. You automatically "search" for the correct focussing until you remember using the 4/25. I also found out that a 25mm isn't "in the middle" between 15 and 35mm but a lot closer to 35mm than to 15mm. Although 25mm is excellent for architecture work, I sold it to gain the 4/21mm, and not miss it. It is very sharp and contrasty like the 25mm. The perspective is a bit more "extreme". With architecture, you need to look out for falling lines.
It has significant light-falloff at f/4, so best use it at f/8. It has a great finder without sharp edges. Contrast and flare behavior isn't as great as with the 4.5/15mm but nearby. IMHO it flares less than the (otherwise great) Kobalux 21mm (one step slower too!)
My smallest everyday/travel kit consists of a Bessa-R with attached Pancake 2.5-35, with addition of a small short-telephoto (i.e. the 2.5-75) and the 21mm together in a very small Lowe bag.
cheers Frank
It has significant light-falloff at f/4, so best use it at f/8. It has a great finder without sharp edges. Contrast and flare behavior isn't as great as with the 4.5/15mm but nearby. IMHO it flares less than the (otherwise great) Kobalux 21mm (one step slower too!)
My smallest everyday/travel kit consists of a Bessa-R with attached Pancake 2.5-35, with addition of a small short-telephoto (i.e. the 2.5-75) and the 21mm together in a very small Lowe bag.
cheers Frank
Peter Klein
Well-known
I don't shoot with a 21mm very much, but there are times when I'm glad to have it. Here's one:
http://users.2alpha.com/~pklein/temp/20DankaFilePileBW.htm
(by the way, that's bright sunlight streaming in the window, so I guess the flare performance is more than adequate).
Quite usable wide open. Stopped down a little, it's a great lens. Very affordable, and very compact. I'm sure the Leica is sharper, but I couldn't justify the Leica for the amount I shoot it.
I probably would have the VC 25 if it was rangefinder coupled, though. 24/25 mm is a more practical length, 21 is more of a specialty. I owned the 25mm a few years back, but I couldn't get used to it being non-coupled, and I hated the old-style viewfinder with no bright lines.
These are the opinions of someone who doesn't see "wide" as a general rule, and who prefers 50mm lenses to 35mm given the choice. Your mileage may vary. Batteries not included. So there.
--Peter
http://users.2alpha.com/~pklein/temp/20DankaFilePileBW.htm
(by the way, that's bright sunlight streaming in the window, so I guess the flare performance is more than adequate).
Quite usable wide open. Stopped down a little, it's a great lens. Very affordable, and very compact. I'm sure the Leica is sharper, but I couldn't justify the Leica for the amount I shoot it.
I probably would have the VC 25 if it was rangefinder coupled, though. 24/25 mm is a more practical length, 21 is more of a specialty. I owned the 25mm a few years back, but I couldn't get used to it being non-coupled, and I hated the old-style viewfinder with no bright lines.
These are the opinions of someone who doesn't see "wide" as a general rule, and who prefers 50mm lenses to 35mm given the choice. Your mileage may vary. Batteries not included. So there.
--Peter
thafred
silver addict
It´s a brilliant lens! I don´t know about the sharpness of the Leica 21 but I find the CV lens more than good for what I shoot. As other people said you have to stop down a little for perfect corner sharpness but vignetting and overall apearence is fine enuf for me at f4. (my only other WA was a Orion so I´m very tolerant against vignetting and corner sharpness and the Skopar works wonderfull )
I like the ergonomics and the focusing tab, also that it goes down to 0,5m! (without coupling of course)
The contrast is on the high side and maybe you don´t see it in the b/w pictures I´ve attached (sloppy processing) but when enlarged in my V35 i´ve mainly used grade 2 and the Prints have beautifull contrast. (you can see the high contrast in the shot of Zürich lake, shot on Agfa U100 neg Film)
Flare is ok, alltho I´ve shot a thunderstorm last wheek and noticed some "UFO"s caused by bright street lamps standing on the side of the camera...I guess a good hood would help a lot and I will get one for sure.
I love the lens and can´t recomend it enough, I´m using a 50mm as my primary lens and never cared for 35mm lenses. The difference in View from 50mm to 21mm is allways refreshing 😉
Heres some exsamples:
I like the ergonomics and the focusing tab, also that it goes down to 0,5m! (without coupling of course)
The contrast is on the high side and maybe you don´t see it in the b/w pictures I´ve attached (sloppy processing) but when enlarged in my V35 i´ve mainly used grade 2 and the Prints have beautifull contrast. (you can see the high contrast in the shot of Zürich lake, shot on Agfa U100 neg Film)
Flare is ok, alltho I´ve shot a thunderstorm last wheek and noticed some "UFO"s caused by bright street lamps standing on the side of the camera...I guess a good hood would help a lot and I will get one for sure.
I love the lens and can´t recomend it enough, I´m using a 50mm as my primary lens and never cared for 35mm lenses. The difference in View from 50mm to 21mm is allways refreshing 😉
Heres some exsamples:
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Nachkebia
Well-known
How it stands against 21mm biogon?
Nice images btw!
Nice images btw!
Flyfisher Tom
Well-known
back alley said:
Yes, they are different enough to warrant having one of each. Just as a 24/25 is different enough from a 28 IMO. A particular great deal since the CV 21 costs next to nothing when you factor in the fantastic viewfinder.
You didn't really want to hear that, did you 😛
thafred
silver addict
Hey Nachkebia,
I´m intersted too if someone has experience with both lenses but I seriously doubt that the Biogon (or the Leitz couterpart) performs better at the same relation as the relation of price betwen Biogon and Skopar 😉
At 2,8 or 4 there is no discussion but say at 5,6 or 8?
Also I doubt that anyone who is considering buying a Skopar 21/4 and struggling with the decission (for alot of people, incuding me, 350€ is alot of donuts (or Krapfen) for a lens) is even slightly considering a Biogon. Also if I had money for the Zeiss i´d rather get a 15, 21, 28 Kit from Cosina 😉
Don´t understand me wrong, You have one of the nicest Kits there is! (maybe THE nicest) I just want to say that some compairsons are absolutely pointless for real world use as people who can afford such lenses don´t tend to go the cheaper route anyways cuz of Trademark.
ok ok...I admit I´m just envious, show us some Biogon Pics!
One last word, there are situations where it doesn´t matter if Biogon/Angulon/Skopar/Lomo 😉
I´m intersted too if someone has experience with both lenses but I seriously doubt that the Biogon (or the Leitz couterpart) performs better at the same relation as the relation of price betwen Biogon and Skopar 😉
At 2,8 or 4 there is no discussion but say at 5,6 or 8?
Also I doubt that anyone who is considering buying a Skopar 21/4 and struggling with the decission (for alot of people, incuding me, 350€ is alot of donuts (or Krapfen) for a lens) is even slightly considering a Biogon. Also if I had money for the Zeiss i´d rather get a 15, 21, 28 Kit from Cosina 😉
Don´t understand me wrong, You have one of the nicest Kits there is! (maybe THE nicest) I just want to say that some compairsons are absolutely pointless for real world use as people who can afford such lenses don´t tend to go the cheaper route anyways cuz of Trademark.
ok ok...I admit I´m just envious, show us some Biogon Pics!
One last word, there are situations where it doesn´t matter if Biogon/Angulon/Skopar/Lomo 😉
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Nachkebia
Well-known
I wish I could have taken some pictures to show you samples! give me some time until this weekend, it is very hot here but I will try to shot something 🙂
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
I bought a CV 21/4 here for 220 EUR from AlexC (thafred: and this was the largest amount of money I ever spent on photographic equipment, followed by 150 USD in Tashkent for my Kiev-88, so I guess we're in the same league). I have never regretted it since. Since the widest lens I had at that point was a 35 (not counting the 50mm Flektogon in medium format), it did make quite a difference, and I'm still struggling with the perspective at times. But it's a great lens at an affordable price. I'll post pictures as soon as I get my scanner working again, I've just moved to a different apartment and am still living out of cardboard boxes.
Philipp
Philipp
Rafael
Mandlerian
Thanks for the great images Bmoc and thafred. And thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. I think that you guys have confirmed my choice for me.
I have never purchased CV gear before. Is Cameraquest the best place to purchase the lens (even if I live in Canada)?
I have never purchased CV gear before. Is Cameraquest the best place to purchase the lens (even if I live in Canada)?
back alley said:
I wonder the same thing having the 21 and 28. So far I have said no, but what do I know?
thafred
silver addict
Me Too! I moved last weekend and the apartment is still a mess! Also I had to spend the amount of a nice Biogon 21 for a not so nice Kitchen/Fridge/Washing machine...damn priorities ..that did hurt 😱
One other thing.....220€?!?! holy krapfen good buy!
My most expensive purchase was the Bessa+Nokton, new from Germany for 600€ (I sold some Tube Amps on Ebay for it)
Everyone recomends Steven and If I weren´t in Europe I would have bought from him for sure.
Good decission, make sure you tell us how you like it!
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Hi thafred,
Philipp
Ah, I know how that feels. I economized by building most of the kitchen myself and buying the electric stuff from a good second-hand dealer. The disadvantage was that it was lots of work cutting, treating, polishing and installing wooden countertops.
The USD price was actually fair, but not exorbitantly low. It's mainly the result of the strong Euro and weak dollar. Currently this even outweighs the extra 16% that customs tacks onto postal shipments, so it makes sense to buy stuff overseas. I'm going to the US in two weeks, so maybe I'll order a few things over there and bring them to Germany with me.
Philipp
Flyfisher Tom
Well-known
Rafael said:
You can also purchase from B&H.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...s&Q=&sku=232564&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
They are quick, responsive, and absolutely dependable. And you get tracking + insurance in your shipping. Instant update of your lens' progress by email.
cheers
pstevenin
Established
As said, this is a pretty excellent lens, but vignettes quite a lot at f 4.
Mine is equipped with the square hood and definetely suffers from flare (compared to the other lenses I own). No direct sun or bulb in it! I ruined some photos at The Louvre just because a lot of light went from the left thru a window (not directly in the frame) and hit the statue I tried to shoot. I use it some times but take in considerations perspectives, edges, and potential flare.
Mine is equipped with the square hood and definetely suffers from flare (compared to the other lenses I own). No direct sun or bulb in it! I ruined some photos at The Louvre just because a lot of light went from the left thru a window (not directly in the frame) and hit the statue I tried to shoot. I use it some times but take in considerations perspectives, edges, and potential flare.
Rafael
Mandlerian
pstevenin said:
Even with the rectangular hood? :bang:
