Richard G
Veteran
No. Cancel culture is about oppression and insistence on only one way of looking at things. Thoughtful critics whose opinions run counter to a current or prevailing view are not debated now, they are attacked, “deplatformed” and pilloried, and social media facilitates the exponential amplification of their obliteration. Few can hold out against such a tide. One has.
It could be that there really is one way of looking at things...a humane way of looking at things. People who truly do bad things should deal with the consequences. People want to be able to do and say what they want and still have a job. People want to be free to have racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, or whatever extreme right or extreme left views that don't sit well with people and spout off in public about them... but there are consequences for that behavior. Free speech does not mean you can be an a$$hole without any consequences. People who get cancelled are in a privileged position... and they do or say the wrong things, and the public turns on them. It is a consequence. There are plenty of people who have said or done the wrong things and have come back from it.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Actually, yes it does. By your definition, people in Stalin's Russia had free speech...they just had to accept the consequence of being taken out and shot if they were the sort of a$$hole who disagreed with the leftist doctrine.
As an artist, free speech and expression are sacred to me. As a historian, I know that free speech must be defended vigorously against those who would subvert it and destroy the free and open society that our ancestors fought and bled and died to establish.
It is none of an employer's business what someone says outside of work. To argue otherwise is to argue for a return to serfdom.
I'm not defending DAH; his situation isn't a free speech issue; he is being accused of things that are illegal in the US, like touching women sexually without permission and masturbating in front of them. If he's guilty, he should be punished.
Michael Markey
Veteran
I agree Chris ... the "cure" is worst than the disease.
A bit of a tangent from what I was talking about. Cancel culture is affecting mainly celebrities... not the average person. You are allowed to say whatever you want. However, you have to deal with whatever fallout that may be when you aren't in like company. I do not think people should be killed for simply saying something.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but I never said you cannot say whatever you want. I said there could be consequences. I can assure you, I am not a danger. I keep to myself mostly, I am not too political and as a lefty, have right wingers in my family that I actually love.
Sure, to me too... but if you are controversial you have to be able to handle the storm that comes your way. It could affect you financially and personally.
Workplaces have rules regarding sexual harassment, ageism, racism, religious discrimination, etc. What you say outside of the workplace could affect the workplace if the behavior is extreme. I'm not saying you should be fired because you posted that you love Trump on Facebook or because you aren't a lefty. That's nonsense. Context is key.
Exactly...this is the "canceling" I'm talking about. If he did these things and it is proven, it goes beyond the norm of what is accepted no matter your political affiliation. He needs to deal with the consequences. I am not responsible for deciding what those consequences are. I also think that he can learn to be a better person.
Corran
Well-known
You clearly haven't been on social media in the last, oh, 4 years.
I could quote some politicians and their stance on this very idea but I don't feel like getting into it.
Or I simply ignore political nonsense. Who has been "cancelled" that did not deserve it?
jvo
Established
Power Corrupts
telenous
Well-known
A similar situation transpired in VII with Antonin Kratochvil in 2018. He resigned swiftly. I don't know how much real impact it had on VII but I've certainly not heard of the story since. The situation with DAH and Magnum seems worse.
.
KM-25
Well-known
This is on my mind daily since reading the original post....it’s really impactful and dreadful. I am taking it personal because I always took it personal.
I can’t even begin to know how to evaluate, unpack and repack all the memories of spending time with him and the rest of the tribe. It’s a game of mental gymnastics in how to keep the good times and vibes good but be true to the cause of the allegations and give all the ladies their due.
I have no idea what is to come of this for all involved, it’s just a bad deal all around. Thinking out loud... . . .
I can’t even begin to know how to evaluate, unpack and repack all the memories of spending time with him and the rest of the tribe. It’s a game of mental gymnastics in how to keep the good times and vibes good but be true to the cause of the allegations and give all the ladies their due.
I have no idea what is to come of this for all involved, it’s just a bad deal all around. Thinking out loud... . . .
PKR
Veteran
This is just the beginning of this thing, now that DAH has made it Legal. The legal system moves slowly and, that allows a lot of time for public comment (Photo Press) on every move made by either side. All of Magnum's clients are watching this as, they don't wish to be caught doing business with a distributor of child porn, under the guise of PJ.. or doing business with an outfit that doesn't protect their employees, and hides from sunlight on these issues.. until now (?).
When looking back at Birk Uzzle's move from Magnum, having been it's past president, I always wondered. You would have to be embedded in that agency's culture for a long time to know where all the bodies are buried. I've always had great respect for Uzzle and the stance he took for us.. you and me.
Look under "Withdrawin", I didn't know the list was so big. Uzzle and Harbutt (also a past president) were neighbors and friends in NYC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnum_Photos
Bill Pierce published Burk's letter.
http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0104/nutsandbolts.htm
Richard G
Veteran
This sort of behaviour in professional environments features similar themes regardless of the venue. Once the behaviour is deliberate there is great cunning in picking the mark and leaving others untouched, but also in keeping it from those who might call it out. Those who might call it out and those not harmed directly are often chastised or piled on later for having ignored it: they must have known. Not so. The linked piece by Bill Pierce on Burk Uzzle suggests a man of such principle that he might have smelt something in the wind before it was explicit and moved on before knowing for sure just why. So don’t beat yourselves up guys. You too have been betrayed.
sjones
Established
Cancel culture is just another phrase for political correctness, which, despite being treated like a relatively new ‘threat’, reached pop culture status nearly three decades ago.
Cancel culture is conveniently seen as a creation of the left, despite decades (centuries?) of conservative led attempts to ban various publications, movies, songs, and even the little P&G stars-moon logo on Crest toothpaste tubes that allegedly inspired Satanic worship.
Target, Nike, Keurig, Yeti, and the NFL have all been relatively recent targets of rightwing boycott attempts (albeit ineffectual and limited).
And then we have Lord God Hypocrite Trump, who openly whined about ‘cancel culture’ while literally trying to halt the publication of two books about him. Which leads to the greater absolute fact that Trump spent the past four years stoking anti-PC grievances while simultaneously trying to cancel culture the hell out of intelligence, honesty, decency, democracy, and even tens of thousands of lives.
Oh sure, PC culture can get wacky, suffocatingly sanctimonious, and, in academia, it can discourage needed, respectful conversation. Then again, at least during the past 60 or so years, college students have always been at the forefront of self-righteous vigor, but a) most grow out of it, and b) their arguments usually have legitimate bases no matter how obnoxious the messenger.
However, this is no longer just about piously getting off by trashing someone because they used “chairman” instead of “chair” or “chairperson.”
That is, at this stage, anti-PC complaints from the right typically center more on the “oppressive” assault against outright bigotry, chauvinism, and fascism.
If you say that lynching a person because of their skin color is bad, you’re quickly accused of virtue signaling or being a social justice warrior (to note, accusing a “libtard” of virtue signaling is, in and of itself, a form of rightwing virtue signaling, so, you know, the circle spins and spins…).
As Billy Bragg rightly pointed out, what these folks are usually seeking is not freedom but license, license to say or do anything without taking any personal responsibility or suffering any consequences.
They want to shout the ‘n-word’ whenever and wherever without drawing any potential reprimand. They want to be able to treat LGBT people like second class citizens without confronting any protests (i.e., they want to ‘cancel culture’ anyone who doesn’t agree with their hateful discriminatory practices).
The problem with ‘political correctness’ is that it compartmentalizes ethics into a self-appointed politized box, which either side can then exploit for whatever their needs. But the bottom line is that refusing to use the n-word or any other ethnic slur is NOT a matter of being PC; it’s a matter of fundamental common decency. It’s called being a good human being. And the right’s appropriation of PC invariably indicts decency and vilifies and contorts tolerance.
You’re a hypocritical leftist if you demand tolerance but fail to tolerate racism, whereby we must then play a dehumanizingly nihilistic game to equate “intolerance of hatred” with “hatred,” as though they both demand equal respect. Never a fan of moral relativism when it was pushed by the left, and I’m certainly not one when it’s pushed by the right.
If your dialogue promotes white, male, heterosexual, Christian superiority, then yeah, I will gladly ‘cancel culture’ you, because you are a regressive, ruinous agent of devolution. Does this in turn make some sort of “fascist”; well, as much as it would make me a fascist for demanding that people not rape or murder.
But we’re just talking about words. Well, Goebbels on stage one day spewing out “just words”, and before you know it, between 50 million to 70 million people dead across the planet. Hate speech poses serious threats, whether in terms of feeding systemic bigotry or even inciting genocide.
Also, any argument that the left is attempting to impose one way is egregiously ignorant of the gaping ideological fractures between moderate liberals, progressive, and the actual “radical left.” But then again, when there are so many people who scream “communist” when encountering anyone left of “Mein Kampf”, what can you do?
Happy Holi---damn, the war on Christmas almost had me…um…Merry Christmas! And Happy Holidays, since Christmas ain’t the only game in town this time of year.
Cancel culture is conveniently seen as a creation of the left, despite decades (centuries?) of conservative led attempts to ban various publications, movies, songs, and even the little P&G stars-moon logo on Crest toothpaste tubes that allegedly inspired Satanic worship.
Target, Nike, Keurig, Yeti, and the NFL have all been relatively recent targets of rightwing boycott attempts (albeit ineffectual and limited).
And then we have Lord God Hypocrite Trump, who openly whined about ‘cancel culture’ while literally trying to halt the publication of two books about him. Which leads to the greater absolute fact that Trump spent the past four years stoking anti-PC grievances while simultaneously trying to cancel culture the hell out of intelligence, honesty, decency, democracy, and even tens of thousands of lives.
Oh sure, PC culture can get wacky, suffocatingly sanctimonious, and, in academia, it can discourage needed, respectful conversation. Then again, at least during the past 60 or so years, college students have always been at the forefront of self-righteous vigor, but a) most grow out of it, and b) their arguments usually have legitimate bases no matter how obnoxious the messenger.
However, this is no longer just about piously getting off by trashing someone because they used “chairman” instead of “chair” or “chairperson.”
That is, at this stage, anti-PC complaints from the right typically center more on the “oppressive” assault against outright bigotry, chauvinism, and fascism.
If you say that lynching a person because of their skin color is bad, you’re quickly accused of virtue signaling or being a social justice warrior (to note, accusing a “libtard” of virtue signaling is, in and of itself, a form of rightwing virtue signaling, so, you know, the circle spins and spins…).
As Billy Bragg rightly pointed out, what these folks are usually seeking is not freedom but license, license to say or do anything without taking any personal responsibility or suffering any consequences.
They want to shout the ‘n-word’ whenever and wherever without drawing any potential reprimand. They want to be able to treat LGBT people like second class citizens without confronting any protests (i.e., they want to ‘cancel culture’ anyone who doesn’t agree with their hateful discriminatory practices).
The problem with ‘political correctness’ is that it compartmentalizes ethics into a self-appointed politized box, which either side can then exploit for whatever their needs. But the bottom line is that refusing to use the n-word or any other ethnic slur is NOT a matter of being PC; it’s a matter of fundamental common decency. It’s called being a good human being. And the right’s appropriation of PC invariably indicts decency and vilifies and contorts tolerance.
You’re a hypocritical leftist if you demand tolerance but fail to tolerate racism, whereby we must then play a dehumanizingly nihilistic game to equate “intolerance of hatred” with “hatred,” as though they both demand equal respect. Never a fan of moral relativism when it was pushed by the left, and I’m certainly not one when it’s pushed by the right.
If your dialogue promotes white, male, heterosexual, Christian superiority, then yeah, I will gladly ‘cancel culture’ you, because you are a regressive, ruinous agent of devolution. Does this in turn make some sort of “fascist”; well, as much as it would make me a fascist for demanding that people not rape or murder.
But we’re just talking about words. Well, Goebbels on stage one day spewing out “just words”, and before you know it, between 50 million to 70 million people dead across the planet. Hate speech poses serious threats, whether in terms of feeding systemic bigotry or even inciting genocide.
Also, any argument that the left is attempting to impose one way is egregiously ignorant of the gaping ideological fractures between moderate liberals, progressive, and the actual “radical left.” But then again, when there are so many people who scream “communist” when encountering anyone left of “Mein Kampf”, what can you do?
Happy Holi---damn, the war on Christmas almost had me…um…Merry Christmas! And Happy Holidays, since Christmas ain’t the only game in town this time of year.
philosli
Established
I used to follow Harvey on Instagram. Then 2-3 years ago I stopped after one of his post made me uncomfortable: for whatever reason, I felt he and the female subject in his IG photo had an intimate but inappropriate relationship.
After seeing this news, I did went back to search that IG post in his Instagram stream. It's still there.
After seeing this news, I did went back to search that IG post in his Instagram stream. It's still there.
maddoc
... likes film again.
I now remember his name but not the story behind it. I will check later.
PKR
Veteran
I believe, DAH is married? Please correct me if wrong. The women in the photo, quite a bit younger than he, may be his wife?
I haven't kept up with his work for more than a year but, i recall his wife being from SA and, there were lots of photos of her on his IG feed for a time.
KM-25 might clear this up?
Agiknee
Documentarian
Bottom line for the “cure” is being held accountable for their actions. How is this worse than the disease?
Many of you are subtlety pushing your political agenda and psuedo theoretical philosophy on issues of speech when it comes to a man being held accountable for his misconduct. Take a step back, look at the bigger issue. It’s not speech, it’s not cancel culture. We have come a long way for women to now be able to come forward and speak out against their oppressors without shame and blow back.
Get with the times guys.
Michael Markey
Veteran
Oh I agree with you .... there is a difference between licence and freedom. .
As to Harvey I got to feel uncomfortable about some aspects of his work some time ago and stopped "following" him.
Rick Waldroup
Well-known
Thank you for this refreshingly honest post. It was a nice read sitting here drinking coffee on Christmas morning.
I hope everyone here has a great new year. We certainly need one after this disaster of a year. Good luck to all of you.