Digital rangefinder cameras please?

[Andy K]

My first off-road vehicle was a 1946 Willys CJ2A with a flattie four, PTO and a dash-adjusted throttle in the mountains surrounding Denver, Colorado, so I suspect I have been offroad quite a bit over the years. I prefer the automatic for same reason people in San Francisco don't care for manual shifts at stop signs on the top of Lomard street. You don't burn out the clutch, you burn out the throw-out bearing. But you'd have to know your way around a drivetrain to know that.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

If you sit with foot on clutch to hold the car on a hill you WILL burn it out. If you put the car in neutral and sit with foot on brake, you WON'T burn the clutch out. But I guess you need to know how to drive to know that.

 

[Andy K]

Tell that to the F1 racers whose clutchless trannys are capable of shifting much faster than their arms can. Is that not a real transmission?

I was referring to auto-boxed 4x4s.

 

[robert blu]

Wellcome Kev to the forum. I just like to add a small comment on this interesting thread. It has been mentioned RD1 low sales could demonstrate th low request for any RF-D camera. I do not discuss the quality of this camera already done by others, but in my opinion the low sales of RD-1 are due also to a no marketing, no promotion, no advertisimg for it. At least in Italy. Many photographer even do not know it exist! I was personally interested and I ask myself? Am I reday to spend such a money for a camera : yes.
Than I ask my self if I was ready to spend such a money for a camera without seeing it, testing it, having in my hands at least for a few minutes. Maybe inserting my own card and testing it. Not knowing what kind of post sales service was available ? The answer was, IS, no, sorry. The RD! idea is excellent, but not enough to get sales. Today's marketing and service are a reality

Sorry for my english, regards
robert

 

[bmattock]

If you sit with foot on clutch to hold the car on a hill you WILL burn it out. If you put the car in neutral and sit with foot on brake, you WON'T burn the clutch out. But I guess you need to know how to drive to know that.

A throwout bearing is not a clutch and is not burned out in the same way. Only a reader would know that.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[willie_901]

robert,

I admire you for posting an on-topic thread.

Because I was starting from scratch, I was willing to buy a couple of inexpensive 15-24 mm lenses and give the RD-1 a try. After careful thought, I fell the same way about the RD1 you do. And decdied to pass on digital cameras for five more years (at least).

willie

p.s. I would be excited enough to do a back-flip if I could write in Itallian as well as you write in English. Then my goal in life would be to become an ex-patriot in your beautiful country.

 

[Toby]

Wellcome Kev to the forum. I just like to add a small comment on this interesting thread. It has been mentioned RD1 low sales could demonstrate th low request for any RF-D camera. I do not discuss the quality of this camera already done by others, but in my opinion the low sales of RD-1 are due also to a no marketing, no promotion, no advertisimg for it. At least in Italy. Many photographer even do not know it exist! I was personally interested and I ask myself? Am I reday to spend such a money for a camera : yes.
Than I ask my self if I was ready to spend such a money for a camera without seeing it, testing it, having in my hands at least for a few minutes. Maybe inserting my own card and testing it. Not knowing what kind of post sales service was available ? The answer was, IS, no, sorry.

I agree with this most photographers, especially pros, are a pretty conservative bunch. Most press photographers wouldn't even look past canon or nikon in their choice of DSLR no matter what the competition offered. I myself have been in the unenviable position of working in Israel when my Pentax 67 broke. I found out it was not officially imported to this country so spares would have to be shipped from.....Japan!! That is the trouble with a camera like the Epson RD-1 if it goes wrong you don't have the same professional saftey net you do with a mainstream product. For the busy pro this is a major turn off in London I know if my Canon breaks I can ring calumet and hire a body that will be delivered to my door same with a nikon, RD-1 I don't think so no matter how good it undoubtably is

 

[bmattock]

Well actually, the Defenders around the world are being used as they are intended... I don't know where you got your info.

Simple observation - here in the USA, we have a bazillion SUVs of various stripes, as well as 'real' 4WD vehicles - nearly none used as allegedly intended. Soccer moms and dads don't really need self-inflating tires or traction-lock to pick up the kids.

And in the UK? Haven't they carpeted the entire country by now? It's pretty small, I think Bill Gate's house is bigger.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Andy K]

A throwout bearing is not a clutch and is not burned out in the same way. Only a reader would know that.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

If you drive correctly and use the brakes to hold a car stationary on a hill and not the clutch, neither the clutch nor the throwout bearing will burn out. Again, only someone who can atually drive would know that.

 

[Gid]

And in the UK? Haven't they carpeted the entire country by now? It's pretty small, I think Bill Gate's house is bigger.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

I've heard that Wales would fit into his office, that England would just about squeeze into his kitchen and that the bathroom would swallow the whole of Scotland and Northern Ireland - would really mess up his floor coverings though 🙂

 

[bmattock]

If you drive correctly and use the brakes to hold a car stationary on a hill and not the clutch, neither the clutch nor the throwout bearing will burn out. Again, only someone who can atually drive would know that.

Andy, this is fun, and I am enjoying it. But seriously, automatics are far preferred for serious offroading. In boulder-climbing, an auto can infinitely slip to allow engine speed to remain constant - you can't do that with a manual transmission, you go at the lowest engine speed or your slip clutch, or you stall. When climbing hills at speed, you do not lose torque when shifting, which you do with a manual, even if only for a moment, unless you bang-shift your gears. Heel and toe for three pedals can be done, but on a hill or at an extreme angle is difficult at best. There is nothing inherently 'manly' about being able to do it - and if you slip, you may well go over the cliff. On ice, automatics again get the nod for not breaking traction between downshifts as manuals can if RPM is not matched before the clutch is disengaged with extreme precision.

The one advantage that a manual transmission has offroad is that it can make use of engine compression to slow the vehicle in straight-downhill runs, which an automatic cannot do as effectively. That's pretty much it.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Socke]

I'm man enough to drive a Mini with cupholders and barely enough space in the trunk for a tripod and some cameras.

If I encounter terrain my Mini won't master, I call my brother-in-law and borrow an Unimog U4000 or a MB-Track 1200. Both automatic by the way, but very good at pulling Defenders and Landcruizers back on the street 🙂

 

[bmattock]

I always thought it would be fun to own a Pinzgauer:

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[fgianni]

There is a big difference in attitude towards automatic cars in Europe and the US-Canada, a few years ago a friend of mine made an inquiry about an automatic verision of the Croma (the old model) at a FIAT dealer, and the answer was: "why do you want and automatic car, have you got some sort of disability?"
Even my wife would not be seen dead driving an automatic car, when it comes to vehicles she has more testosterone than me.

 

[ywenz]

This is also why cup holders are not as popular in Europe as they are in the N. America.

We've got miles upon miles of long stretching roads, we want to be comfortable when "cruising" our large, sofa-like automobiles.

I just took a road trip from Chicago -> Detroit -> Miami. My GPS logged 43 hours behind the wheels, try doing that in western Europe, and you'll find yourself in Mesopotamia after 43 hours. And you wonder why our driving cultures are different?

 

[Socke]

I just took a road trip from Chicago -> Detroit -> Miami. My GPS logged 43 hours behind the wheels, try doing that in western Europe, and you'll find yourself in Mesopotamia after 43 hours. And you wonder why our driving cultures are different?

Jep, Bremen -> Narbonne, Northsea to the mediteranean in 20 hours. With restaurants not farther than 50 miles apart.

 

[Andy K]

There is a big difference in attitude towards automatic cars in Europe and the US-Canada, a few years ago a friend of mine made an inquiry about an automatic verision of the Croma (the old model) at a FIAT dealer, and the answer was: "why do you want and automatic car, have you got some sort of disability?"
Even my wife would not be seen dead driving an automatic car, when it comes to vehicles she has more testosterone than me.

Very true. We even have two levels of driving licence in the UK for manual and automatic. If you learn to drive and take your test in an automatic by law you cannot drive manual shift vehicles. However, if you learn in a manual shift you are permitted to drive automatics.

A few years ago there was a story in the papers about a tourist from the US who hired a car to drive to Exeter from London. He called the hire company about two thirds of the way to Exeter complaining the car had died with the engine blowing oil and water out the head gasket. He also said the car had done no more than 28 mph the whole way along the motorway no matter how hard he pressed the accellerator.
It turned out he had driven 120 miles or so in second gear with the engine revving flat out.

 

[Kev T]

Thanks Toby & Robert

Thanks Toby & Robert

Wellcome Kev to the forum. I just like to add a small comment on this interesting thread. It has been mentioned RD1 low sales could demonstrate th low request for any RF-D camera. I was personally interested and I ask myself? Am I reday to spend such a money for a camera : yes.
Than I ask my self if I was ready to spend such a money for a camera without seeing it, testing it, having in my hands at least for a few minutes. Maybe inserting my own card and testing it. Not knowing what kind of post sales service was available ? The answer was, IS, no, sorry.

I agree with this most photographers, especially pros, are a pretty conservative bunch. Most press photographers wouldn't even look past canon or nikon in their choice of DSLR no matter what the competition offered. I myself have been in the unenviable position of working in Israel when my Pentax 67 broke. I found out it was not officially imported to this country so spares would have to be shipped from.....Japan!! That is the trouble with a camera like the Epson RD-1 if it goes wrong you don't have the same professional saftey net you do with a mainstream product. For the busy pro this is a major turn off in London I know if my Canon breaks I can ring calumet and hire a body that will be delivered to my door same with a nikon, RD-1 I don't think so no matter how good it undoubtably is

Hello Toby & Robert,

Thanks for both your welcomes, this had certainly been a good forum with hardly any nasty replies unlike other forums I've participated in before, although this thread is prgressing somewhat funny into 2 distinct topics about digital RF cameras & 4 wheel drive vehicles... 😀 Certainly a great example of free expression!

I'm based in Singapore, and outside of Japan, we have the regional HQ for Epson here, even then, Epson never exported RD-1s here, and I've only seen and touched 1 bought by a friend who simply could afford it, and travelled often enough to Japan in case the camera requires service.

As I said, it is a fine product made by the wrong company which does not have the infrastructure to support it with sufficient credibility. Epson is not a serious camera manufacturer, the RD-1 is very different from the cheap P & S consumer cameras they were selling.

Now I'm looking forward to the Leica dM, but of course that means putting aside a large sum of funds! 🙁 So it would be great if CV consider their global supporters, and give us a more affordable entry point of the digital RF camera concept.

I'm sure they'd have learnt somethings from the RD1 project to give us something better without costing too much...

Warmly,
Kev

 

[Andy K]

Andy, this is fun, and I am enjoying it. But seriously, automatics are far preferred for serious offroading....

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Believe what you want Bill. I would not do any serious off roading in an automatic. Not even if you paid me. I'll stick to a vehicle with a proper gear train.

'Whether Defender is towing, climbing or driving off-road, control of engine Torque is provided through a robust dual-range transfer box. This gives drivers more control and the flexibility of ten forward and two reverse gears.'

 

[bmattock]

Believe what you want Bill. I would not do any serious off roading in an automatic. Not even if you paid me. I'll stick to a vehicle with a proper gear train.

'Whether Defender is towing, climbing or driving off-road, control of engine Torque is provided through a robust dual-range transfer box. This gives drivers more control and the flexibility of ten forward and two reverse gears.'

Andy, both my Cherokee and my Kia Sorento have a low-range transfer case, and both have posi-traction as well. In addition, the Kia has a proper frame, like a truck, not unibody construction. Torque drops to zero when the clutch is engaged, and I presume the laws of physics are the same in the UK as in the real world. Automatics supply torque from torque converter stall speed to max rpm, all the time whenver the engine is running, and they intentionally slip while continuing to supply torque when the engine RPM would otherwise be forced to drop below idle and stall.

But I'm quite happy you're pleased with your manual gearbox. Come over hear sometime and try the Rubicon Trail.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Andy K]

But I'm quite happy you're pleased with your manual gearbox. Come over hear sometime and try the Rubicon Trail.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

I'm pretty sure that if a 30 year old '65 SIIA 88 in standard trim can romp along the Rubicon, a modern day Defender would have no problems.
You might also like to check out what was SUV of the year in 2005 (even though it was a soft roader), truck of the year etc. etc....