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trust but verify
Do you think people can be trusted?
- Thread starter Roger Hicks
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dee
Well-known
How about being honest ?
Let me invite you to the twilight zone , where everything I do , who ' I ' am has to be a lie , a falsehood . I have what I now know to be severe , absolute Gender Identity Disorder or GIdee for short .
I illustrate this because it is an extreme which , mercifully , few will endure , but has echoes of identity
and honesty
This means that Her frequency is known / real / common sense ... and ' not her ' frequency / physicality is unknown / terrifying .
To an extent , that I sought out ' other girls being boys ' who were my mentors and playmates . I did not want to be a ' girl ' nor feminine as such - just complete / right .
I have no sense of Him being anything to do with me - indeed anything him , each ref to he / she , is torture .
My head remains in deefault - ie of HER , when all the rest is alien and torture ... all that I am is unformed , and what is , deformed .
I tease it a Miss Aligned , 'cos I have to laugh at it .
It's incomprehensible to most . Some tomboys and women tune in to my frequency - a culture / language / being which I learned extensively - to survive as ' me ' in extreme adversity . It's easier for her to recognise Her signals / reflection , than it is for Him to understand why I don't respond in his world .
I know this now , but before ... at an all boys football school ... nightmare .
So , what do I do / say now ?
I live as ' man ' having no sense of what that is . Reflect men who communicate with me - just copying who , how he is , feel that ' I ' am being lost somehow , not being .
Go through most of the motions , endure being seen as such ...
If I ' admit ' my bizarre truth , I alienate most of society and restrict my acceptance - yet am more real , which happens with a few precious girl / tomboy ' sisters ' .
Whatever I do and say , I am lying , untruthful , I cannot be trusted . I have no idea how to respond to a boy or girl child in case I screw him/her up with confused signals
Maybe mechanical toys are a gender free escape ! I don't do many people in my pics !
I am lying , not to myself , I now know what is going on , but whichever face - adult man / child tomboy , I present , I am not being truthful .
Could you trust someone living two lies ? He or She ? Should I remove both of me's from this place 'cos this just isn't acceptable or is off topic - when it's who / how I am ?
By saying this , am I '' admitting '' a serious flaw which should be hidden , not spoken of , as it has been for 6 decades ? It's not about you know what , but IDENTITY , my very being .Should I continue to lie by deefault by allowing the illusion of man inclusion to continue ? Does it matter ?
Maybe not , most will say no - but think how you naturally respond to a guy or girl - it does matter .
Within this ' condition ' I try to be honest in terms of every day stuff , but all the time I am haunted with this sense of lying by being .
I am responding in Roger's space , because he shows such understanding and tolerance - but elsewhere ?
I like joining in here , but always feel like I am lying by dee'fault ... but have left places where being me is uncomfortable for others .
I HAVE to trust , because the alternative is isolation and being 100% not me ... the sense of being invisibe , lost , a ghost changeling child . Yet , I don't trust others to recognise this 'cos their minds are not designed to ! LOL ! Tricky equation huh ?
A few bad experiences on e-bay pale by comparison - believe me !
dee'mented ? dee'lusional ? more like indee'stinct !
Let me invite you to the twilight zone , where everything I do , who ' I ' am has to be a lie , a falsehood . I have what I now know to be severe , absolute Gender Identity Disorder or GIdee for short .
I illustrate this because it is an extreme which , mercifully , few will endure , but has echoes of identity
and honesty
This means that Her frequency is known / real / common sense ... and ' not her ' frequency / physicality is unknown / terrifying .
To an extent , that I sought out ' other girls being boys ' who were my mentors and playmates . I did not want to be a ' girl ' nor feminine as such - just complete / right .
I have no sense of Him being anything to do with me - indeed anything him , each ref to he / she , is torture .
My head remains in deefault - ie of HER , when all the rest is alien and torture ... all that I am is unformed , and what is , deformed .
I tease it a Miss Aligned , 'cos I have to laugh at it .
It's incomprehensible to most . Some tomboys and women tune in to my frequency - a culture / language / being which I learned extensively - to survive as ' me ' in extreme adversity . It's easier for her to recognise Her signals / reflection , than it is for Him to understand why I don't respond in his world .
I know this now , but before ... at an all boys football school ... nightmare .
So , what do I do / say now ?
I live as ' man ' having no sense of what that is . Reflect men who communicate with me - just copying who , how he is , feel that ' I ' am being lost somehow , not being .
Go through most of the motions , endure being seen as such ...
If I ' admit ' my bizarre truth , I alienate most of society and restrict my acceptance - yet am more real , which happens with a few precious girl / tomboy ' sisters ' .
Whatever I do and say , I am lying , untruthful , I cannot be trusted . I have no idea how to respond to a boy or girl child in case I screw him/her up with confused signals
Maybe mechanical toys are a gender free escape ! I don't do many people in my pics !
I am lying , not to myself , I now know what is going on , but whichever face - adult man / child tomboy , I present , I am not being truthful .
Could you trust someone living two lies ? He or She ? Should I remove both of me's from this place 'cos this just isn't acceptable or is off topic - when it's who / how I am ?
By saying this , am I '' admitting '' a serious flaw which should be hidden , not spoken of , as it has been for 6 decades ? It's not about you know what , but IDENTITY , my very being .Should I continue to lie by deefault by allowing the illusion of man inclusion to continue ? Does it matter ?
Maybe not , most will say no - but think how you naturally respond to a guy or girl - it does matter .
Within this ' condition ' I try to be honest in terms of every day stuff , but all the time I am haunted with this sense of lying by being .
I am responding in Roger's space , because he shows such understanding and tolerance - but elsewhere ?
I like joining in here , but always feel like I am lying by dee'fault ... but have left places where being me is uncomfortable for others .
I HAVE to trust , because the alternative is isolation and being 100% not me ... the sense of being invisibe , lost , a ghost changeling child . Yet , I don't trust others to recognise this 'cos their minds are not designed to ! LOL ! Tricky equation huh ?
A few bad experiences on e-bay pale by comparison - believe me !
dee'mented ? dee'lusional ? more like indee'stinct !
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Dee, I suspect that a LOT of us here could accept you just as you are, while understanding that the duality of your everyday existance must be hell. Society just isn't structured for people too far from the norm. We know that. Be yourself here. Photography is for everybody. ~Al
Roger Hicks
Veteran
This may amuse you: the reason I was able to enjoy the hallucinations when I was in hospital under morphine was that I knew they were illusions. But you're right: some people have considerable difficulty in relating to non-duality (the Clear White Light of Reality) while for others it's self-evident that this must be all there is, ultimately.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Dee,
It may be that more people are closer to your situation than you imagine. To take a very light-hearted example, until I was 10 or 12 years old I imagined that there must be some sort of legal obligation to carry sports reporting in newspapers, because no-one would want to read that drivel. Obviously it was at the back to get it out of the way, where no-one would read it.
In other words, an awful lot of us don't actually know or understand how the majority think, but we are obliged to emulate them to a greater or lesser extent, more or less incomprehendingly. Of course yours is an extreme example, and I don't wish to diminish it for an instant, but many of us have more than a glimpse of where (to use the old Californian expression) your head is at.
I suspect, too, that this sense of alienation -- mild in my case, severe in yours -- is one of the roots of creativity: consider how we earn our respective livings. Perhaps you and I should start another thread on this. We are forced to look at many things as if for the first time; things that many people take for granted. I think it's from Jeremiah: I will show you hidden things, hidden things you have not known.
As I have said elsewhere, yours are among the opinions I value most highly on this forum, for their absolute honesty and the way in which you laugh (sometimes with pain, it's true) at your own weaknesses. I see no BS in you, no hatred, no false priorities. As you say, a few bad e-bay experiences aren't what we're talking about.
Cheers,
R.
It may be that more people are closer to your situation than you imagine. To take a very light-hearted example, until I was 10 or 12 years old I imagined that there must be some sort of legal obligation to carry sports reporting in newspapers, because no-one would want to read that drivel. Obviously it was at the back to get it out of the way, where no-one would read it.
In other words, an awful lot of us don't actually know or understand how the majority think, but we are obliged to emulate them to a greater or lesser extent, more or less incomprehendingly. Of course yours is an extreme example, and I don't wish to diminish it for an instant, but many of us have more than a glimpse of where (to use the old Californian expression) your head is at.
I suspect, too, that this sense of alienation -- mild in my case, severe in yours -- is one of the roots of creativity: consider how we earn our respective livings. Perhaps you and I should start another thread on this. We are forced to look at many things as if for the first time; things that many people take for granted. I think it's from Jeremiah: I will show you hidden things, hidden things you have not known.
As I have said elsewhere, yours are among the opinions I value most highly on this forum, for their absolute honesty and the way in which you laugh (sometimes with pain, it's true) at your own weaknesses. I see no BS in you, no hatred, no false priorities. As you say, a few bad e-bay experiences aren't what we're talking about.
Cheers,
R.
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dee
Well-known
LOL , R , I agree about the sports section ! A scene of major bullying and trauma at school .
Thanks - One of the elements which I suggest when ' talking ' to others with ASD glitches is that everyone has similar probs with rationalising / understanding input / stimulii .
[ especially when someone says ' they don't understand me ' - my response is ' You don't understand them , why should it be different ? ' It seems to work as it lowers expectations and calms that need to be listened to . This comes with ideas from others in dealing with how it is , not how we would like it to be .
I hate when there are attempts to create a them and us scenario - I remember being called ' retard ' and ' Girl ' at school , and wondering why everyone else could not see it !
Also , in the 50s , ' disability ' was something to be ignored / shut away - not linked to a middle class child .
I guess I find it all so ridiculous - how the brain can go it's own way irrespective , overiding , shattering Common Sense [ The Dominant Absolute ] which I vainly tried to follow for all those years . ASdee is able to look down on it all with dee'tachment - putting the puzzle pieces together free of expectations ...
As for hidden things -I can ' hear ' other lost / abused ' little girls ' inside grown ups . Always have done , easy peasy - I thought others could too - so why are they playing a pretend game and what are the rules ?
That has not changed one iota !
Mostly , others twist what she says to fit her picture , I can't do this - just take in who / how she is .
I can't ' compare ' 'cos it's just of the moment ... as if I am borrowing safe familiar through her .
She also reinforces my sense of being ... so survical tactic ?
Crazee ? Maybe , but seeing her blossom , become herself , is awesome and worth being crazeee .
Thanks - One of the elements which I suggest when ' talking ' to others with ASD glitches is that everyone has similar probs with rationalising / understanding input / stimulii .
[ especially when someone says ' they don't understand me ' - my response is ' You don't understand them , why should it be different ? ' It seems to work as it lowers expectations and calms that need to be listened to . This comes with ideas from others in dealing with how it is , not how we would like it to be .
I hate when there are attempts to create a them and us scenario - I remember being called ' retard ' and ' Girl ' at school , and wondering why everyone else could not see it !
Also , in the 50s , ' disability ' was something to be ignored / shut away - not linked to a middle class child .
I guess I find it all so ridiculous - how the brain can go it's own way irrespective , overiding , shattering Common Sense [ The Dominant Absolute ] which I vainly tried to follow for all those years . ASdee is able to look down on it all with dee'tachment - putting the puzzle pieces together free of expectations ...
As for hidden things -I can ' hear ' other lost / abused ' little girls ' inside grown ups . Always have done , easy peasy - I thought others could too - so why are they playing a pretend game and what are the rules ?
That has not changed one iota !
Mostly , others twist what she says to fit her picture , I can't do this - just take in who / how she is .
I can't ' compare ' 'cos it's just of the moment ... as if I am borrowing safe familiar through her .
She also reinforces my sense of being ... so survical tactic ?
Crazee ? Maybe , but seeing her blossom , become herself , is awesome and worth being crazeee .
bwcolor
Veteran
Rodger:
Your breadth of knowledge and writing skills are a bit of kinder 'shock and awe'. As an afterthought... the worry that you reference with regards to trust and all such questions go away once seeing is clear.
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
JohnTF
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Roger, seems to me as if you are more Kantian than religious in your moral foundation.
I happen to agree, but if I choose to trust someone, and I generally do, but if it does not work out well, it is really on the other person, I do not choose to be someone who is constantly thinking ill of other people until proven otherwise.
OTOH, I know realistically that some people are more motivated with their own interest, even at the expense of others, I prefer to avoid them if I know this.
I would like to think most people commonly act as a matter of course, altruistically, given the opportunity, but it seems to make the news when it happens. I like to hear when the person so noted does say they did what anyone else would do.
I have a good friend who chose, at this time, to give two years to the Peace Corps in her early 40's, working in Mexico, and I know her quite well, as she was my student, and later worked for me, becoming my friend.
I have given her cameras, and in college, she was robbed in India of all of her film, losing her photos, and while she was upset, she hoped the person robbing her was spending the proceeds to feed someone else.
I regress now and again, mostly in thought, and think there are a few people need a kick to aim them in the right direction, so I am quite sure she is better at my goals than I am.
She gives me a hard time when I try to help her too much, but I hope everyone knows someone as deserving as she.
She drank the d'Yquem with me to celebrate her birthday, it was 30 years old, and we have known each other 30 years.
I don't think a decent life is possible without trust.
You have to trust that it works out most of the time.
Regards, John
I happen to agree, but if I choose to trust someone, and I generally do, but if it does not work out well, it is really on the other person, I do not choose to be someone who is constantly thinking ill of other people until proven otherwise.
OTOH, I know realistically that some people are more motivated with their own interest, even at the expense of others, I prefer to avoid them if I know this.
I would like to think most people commonly act as a matter of course, altruistically, given the opportunity, but it seems to make the news when it happens. I like to hear when the person so noted does say they did what anyone else would do.
I have a good friend who chose, at this time, to give two years to the Peace Corps in her early 40's, working in Mexico, and I know her quite well, as she was my student, and later worked for me, becoming my friend.
I have given her cameras, and in college, she was robbed in India of all of her film, losing her photos, and while she was upset, she hoped the person robbing her was spending the proceeds to feed someone else.
I regress now and again, mostly in thought, and think there are a few people need a kick to aim them in the right direction, so I am quite sure she is better at my goals than I am.
She gives me a hard time when I try to help her too much, but I hope everyone knows someone as deserving as she.
She drank the d'Yquem with me to celebrate her birthday, it was 30 years old, and we have known each other 30 years.
I don't think a decent life is possible without trust.
You have to trust that it works out most of the time.
Regards, John
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porktaco
Well-known
trust but verify. maintain boundaries, acquire information, test and re-test, protect one's self. but operate from a position of hope.
dee
Well-known
.. I was told that resentment against another hurts only me - he/she coul not give a ....
I guess thats how it is for me about honesty and trust - let go of the bad stuff , focus on t he awesome - that Roger , that fine teacher , actually talks to me , and Brian is sending me the most awesome , perfect lens in my whole world - 1959 J 3 in Sonnar mount - for my hydrid Contax IV - as a gift !
I guess thats how it is for me about honesty and trust - let go of the bad stuff , focus on t he awesome - that Roger , that fine teacher , actually talks to me , and Brian is sending me the most awesome , perfect lens in my whole world - 1959 J 3 in Sonnar mount - for my hydrid Contax IV - as a gift !
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Now that one comes from an authoritative source 😉
That's why I mentioned earlier that we can trust people as far as they draw the line between truth (deep inside they know it), and convenience (self-serving motives or instincts). This is a "heart" problem.
Also I agree that in general, people are more trustworthy as a singular person as opposed to as a collective.
JohnTF
Veteran
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ps-- your post reminded me I forgot to turn on the security system. ;-)
I think of it as helping some potential untrustworthy individual more easily find a more trustworthy path.
J
I think of it as helping some potential untrustworthy individual more easily find a more trustworthy path.
J
Bill58
Native Texan
I just got 3 M.O.s, each for $750, for a $600 watch from Nigeria. What do you think the chances are of those M.O.s being stolen/ counterfeit? hahaha
I'm sending them to the UK police.
I'm sending them to the UK police.
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bwcolor
Veteran
You make me laugh. I forgot to turn off the security system prior to opening a window. Now, I'm wide awake and so are my neighbors.
fergus
Well-known
You guys need alarms in your homes? wow...
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