DSLR vs Mirrorless

Ed Weatherly

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I think there has been a LOT of discussion about setting aside a DSLR kit in favor or a mirrorless system. Specifically, I'd like opinions from those who shoot mirrorless if I should trade my DSLR Kit for a mirrorless kit.

I currently have:
D300 with grip/batts/memory cards
Tokina 12 - 24 f4
Nikon 35 - 70 f 2.8
Nikon 50mm f 1.8
Nikon 85mm f 1.8
Nikon 70 - 300 VR
Nikon 18 - 55 (not used)
2 ea Nikon SB600 flashes

I am thinking about a kit built around the Fuji xt1 and 18 - 55 lens. I would need a long lens for still/video of my daughter playing soccer. I'd also like a fast prime for walking around/travel etc.

I do some travel/documentary, documentary, my kids sports, and quite a bit of protrait work (family, kids, seniors) plus some landscape.

Three options I am considering.
1. Trading the entire Nikon kit for the Fuji
2. Selling off the camera body/grip/batts and cards + the Tokina WA lens and buying a Nikon D610 body
3. Keeping the current gear until after Photokina and possibly new Nikon bodies coming out.

Thoughts?
 
a) you might want to add a poll to this post.
b) I'm having the same dilemma. Love mirrorless size. Hate my experience with their AF and the inability to use the Leica lenses I own.

I too am considering the D610. But will be waiting things out.
 
you want to build around the xt1 and the 18-55 but you don't use the nikon 18-55 that you have…that's confusing…
i don't do video but i know fuji is not known for great/easy to use video…
the fuji af is not as fast as the nikon af…

i love my fuji kit but i am slow, methodical and rarely shoot kids or sports...
 
I had a DSLR and a good set of lenses but I bought a mirorless camera and one pancake lens just to "test the water" - within 3 months I'd sold all the DSLR kit and got a second mirrorless body and more lenses.
BUT - I very rarely shoot sports, although I'm happy with a few cycle race shots I took last summer.
Once you've got rid of all that bulky weight and lost the mechanical complexity of that flipping mirror there's no looking back !
 
you want to build around the xt1 and the 18-55 but you don't use the nikon 18-55 that you have…that's confusing…

I probably wouldn't use that lens much either if I owned one - its a $100 kit lens and has no distance scale (a deal breaker for me) and if focusing manually, the throw is about 3/4 of an inch. I've seen lots of good pics from them though.
 
The m43 af focusing speed tends to be better than the Fuji cameras. W/ certain lenses they are pretty close, but on average, the Panasonic gx7 or the Olympus em1 or 5 will be faster. No mirrorless camera is as fast as a good grade dslr.. The new xt1 has been reported to be faster, but my only experience is w/ xp1 and xe1.

Outside of soccer, I can't see anything that u do that would be an issue.

In terms of video capability, the Panasonic and Sony cameras tend to do the best job here.

Given what u already have, another choice could be the Nikon d7100 or 5200. Both are suppose to do video pretty well and they are 24mp sensors. Both these cameras are going to lighter than the d300 or 610 if I remember correctly.

I would say rent the xt1 if u are serious about it. They are coming out w/ a 18-135 weatherproof kit zoom soon (guessing sometime during the summer). Personally, I would wait and c how well this new kit zoom is received before I buy if I were u. Currently there are no weatherproof lenses for the xt1.

Gary
 
I think there has been a LOT of discussion about setting aside a DSLR kit in favor or a mirrorless system. Specifically, I'd like opinions from those who shoot mirrorless if I should trade my DSLR Kit for a mirrorless kit.

I currently have:
D300 with grip/batts/memory cards
Tokina 12 - 24 f4
Nikon 35 - 70 f 2.8
Nikon 50mm f 1.8
Nikon 85mm f 1.8
Nikon 70 - 300 VR
Nikon 18 - 55 (not used)
2 ea Nikon SB600 flashes

I am thinking about a kit built around the Fuji xt1 and 18 - 55 lens. I would need a long lens for still/video of my daughter playing soccer. I'd also like a fast prime for walking around/travel etc.

I do some travel/documentary, documentary, my kids sports, and quite a bit of protrait work (family, kids, seniors) plus some landscape.

Three options I am considering.
1. Trading the entire Nikon kit for the Fuji
2. Selling off the camera body/grip/batts and cards + the Tokina WA lens and buying a Nikon D610 body
3. Keeping the current gear until after Photokina and possibly new Nikon bodies coming out.

Thoughts?

I've spent a LOT of time with both DSLRs and mirrorless cameras in the past decade.

DSLRs, particularly at the AA and Pro end of the scale (like your D300) are highly optimized for responsiveness (by minimized shutter lag, by quick exposure-to-exposure cycling, by highly developed autofocus, etc etc) and are still the best tools for use with action subjects.

There's a fundamental issue here. An optical viewfinder system operates at the speed of light, and a single-lens reflex system displays images at the speed of light gated by the flipping mirror—in shooting a sequence of images, you get to see an image between exposures in the brief flip of the mirror BEFORE the exposure is made, which is enough to predict subject movement and judge the peak of the action. An EVF can never be that fast, and its brief flicker of the subject has to necessarily FOLLOW the exposure, so it can never be used predictively. This is most visible in sequence shooting, but its impact can be felt in single frame exposures too.

With that understanding, few folks really push their equipment to the level that this is a significant issue with the current high-end generation of 'mirrorless' cameras. The most responsive mirrorless camera to date is the Olympus E-M1, which gives up very little to the pro-grade Olympus E-5 in responsiveness. I haven't worked with the Fujis enough to have an opinion of them there, but I have had Olympus E-1, E-5, and E-M1 at the high end of their spectrum and there's very little I cannot accomplish more easily with the E-M1 that I could do with E-5 except for this and one other thing ...

With very high magnification lenses, again the speed of an optical viewfinder vs the speed of an EVF can be an issue. The behavior here is that with an optical viewfinder, the movement of the camera as seen through the viewfinder is not complicated or magnified by the scan-line delay timing inherent in an electronic viewfinder. It just jumps around a little. With an electronic viewfinder, the movement of the camera can be exaggerated to the point of unusable by the display flickering and 'tearing' due to the display refresh cycles.

I see this with the Sony A7 when I fit lenses 135mm and longer. I have to take pains to hold the camera very still, or mount it on a tripod, so the viewfinder image is presented steadily enough for critical focusing. It's much more difficult to stabilize for focusing than fitting a manual lens of equivalent focal length to the Olympus E-1 or E-5 with respect to focusing. The Olympus E-M1 ameliorates this situation a good bit by having exceptionally good in-body-image-stabilization, which allows nearly any lens to be stabilized for focusing easily (although it seems it's not quite up to the challenges of my friend's 750mm astro-scope).

For the other things that you mention—portraits, travel, travel/documentary, documentary, still life, architecture, etc—the best of current mirrorless cameras produce equivalent functionality and imaging qualities compared to the DSLRs. What sports you're shooting, and HOW you shoot them, are often the critical line that you have to evaluate which camera is going to be most feasible for your use.

For my use, I have a three-body system: I kept my ancient Olympus E-1 and a small selection of FourThirds lenses for those specific moments when its shooting responsiveness, particularly with long lenses like the 50-200 plus teleconverter, is required.

For most other shooting with full automation, the E-M1 body with the same FT lenses as above, as well as a nice range of compact and light Micro-FourThirds prime lenses, does a brilliant job.

For my prized collection of favorite Nikon F mount and Leica R mount lenses, I bought the Sony A7 to shoot with. It's a more compact body than any current DSLR, has a better viewfinder than any of the ones at its price level, and is the full-frame original format that these lenses were designed for. These lenses work very well on its sensor. (The A7 and A7r are not great with many of the M-mount lenses, although a few of mine do work satisfactorily giving me a compact kit when so desired.)

Exactly what mix of equipment does the best job for your needs and desires ... I cannot say. But one thing is for certain: no one camera does everything best.

G
 
I would consider one of the Sony APS-C cameras plus the pellicle mirror adapter plus a mix of e-mount primes and wide zooms and a-mount long zoom/s.

My reasoning is that with the pellicle mirror you get slr-type focussing real-time during video. The ability to have good AF during video seems important in the way you will use the camera.

You can get the Sony NEX-6 pretty keenly prices at the moment.

You could go to the a7 twins with the same type of lens setup but I can't see this adding anything over the APS-C format other than expense, for the uses you propose.

The a-mount SLR-style bodies would be an option (inbuilt focusing adapter, as it were) but they don't have the option of converting to a compact walk-about camera.

And a lot of Leica lenses adapt OK on the smaller sensor as you don't get (as much of) the smeary edges.
 
I have a Fuji X-E1 and a Nikon D800. For me, the fuji is a pleasure to use and the optical quality is very good. With very good (large and expensive) lenses, the D800 will produce higher resolution images. But the fuji gives me a compact system with which I can capture images that I can print as large as 16x24, which is the largest size my printer can produce. In my opinion, the D300 offer very few advantages over a fuji system.
 
Wait for Photokina in November. I think that we will have full frame mirrorless cameras that can also handle sports. Right now, the Sony A6000 and the new FE 70-200mm might be able to shoot sports, but too soon to know. Otherwise, mirrorless are great... I still use an old 1DMkIII & 400mm lens for soccer.
 
There's a couple of mirrorless things that appeal to me, but I'm already invested in my DSLR system, and I can use those lenses on digital and film, I cant see a mirrorless rig offering me that flexibility.
 
Viewfinder is a small TV screen which is annoying and subject move has a time lag before it shows.

If you believe it may satisfy you, examine one at a store
 
Hard to give advice without knowing what you perceive as the shortcomings of your current kit or what you see as the potential benefits of the proposed kit . . . .
 
I've read your post a couple of times, and cannot find any criticism of the gear you already have. What do you want that your current gear lacks?

My experience of mirrorless and DSLR is minimal, I've played with a Nikon V1, and a Sony NEX 7, and owned a Nikon D7000 for a little bit. Personally I much prefer the SLR, the mirrorless cameras are smaller of course, but that does not bother me really.

The difference is of course the finder, and while the EVF solutions are 10 times better than they were, they're still (obviously) not as high resolution and lag free as real life.

Unless small size is important, or using M lenses or something, I don't really see the point in mirrorless vs. a DSLR.
 
I currently have:
D300 with grip/batts/memory cards
Tokina 12 - 24 f4
Nikon 35 - 70 f 2.8
Nikon 50mm f 1.8
Nikon 85mm f 1.8
Nikon 70 - 300 VR

Nikon 18 - 55 (not used)
2 ea Nikon SB600 flashes

(...)

2. Selling off the camera body/grip/batts and cards + the Tokina WA lens and buying a Nikon D610 body

(...)

Thoughts?

D610 / D800
 
I am thinking about a kit built around the Fuji xt1 and 18 - 55 lens. I would need a long lens for still/video of my daughter playing soccer. I'd also like a fast prime for walking around/travel etc.

I do some travel/documentary, documentary, my kids sports, and quite a bit of protrait work (family, kids, seniors) plus some landscape.

The X-T1, 18-55, (23/1.4 and/or 35/1.4 and/or 56/1.2) and 55-200 would fit the bill, and, better yet, you can rent most or all of them so you can try them and decide for yourself.
http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/fuji/cameras
http://www.borrowlenses.com/category/fuji-cameras

I have the X-E1 with 18-55 kit, and have added the 35/1.4, 55-200 and 60 macro, and have been very happy with the results. I've played with an X-T1 and was impressed, but my X-E1 is still fine, so I'll probably upgrade when the X-T2 comes out, assuming it does so in a year or two.

I don't shoot a lot of action, so the disadvantages of a mirrorless system aren't all that much of a problem for me, but since you say you'll shoot some sports, you should really test the system out to see how well it works for you.

You can read all sorts of favorable comments at http://www.fujirumors.com.

Oddly, the "no bad words" filter here doesn't allow the fujix dash forum dot com to work, but you can get both favorable and unfavorable commentary on the cameras and lenses there.
 
I have a D800e and a Sony A7R, and it's probably no great surprise when I tell you that they are different animals, so trading in one in favor of the other means trading in one experience and method of working for another, and when you do that, there are bound to be compromises.

To me, the D800e feels like another appendage -- it is instantaneous and captures an image in that split second that I visualize it. The A7R is a slower workflow -- a tool rather than an appendage, if that makes any sense. But the A7R is infinitely more versatile wrt using a multitude of other lens mounts.

Images from both are excellent, given the right lens.
 
There's a couple of mirrorless things that appeal to me, but I'm already invested in my DSLR system, and I can use those lenses on digital and film, I cant see a mirrorless rig offering me that flexibility.

Actually, you can mount just about any lens (with an available adapter) to a mirrorless system, and obviously use such lenses work with the film bodies for which they were originally designed. So you can use the same lenses on digital and film -- just pick a film system, or two or three...
 
Since you have a slew of FF Nikkors and two speedlites I have to agree that a D610 would be the most logical real upgrade from the D300 (which I used to own - disclaimer: I now shoot a 7D and 5DIII). The only caveat is whether you regularly run up against the RAW buffer limit in continuous hi, in which case the D610 will get you about 3 fewer shots in a burst - but they will be full 14-bit files, not 12-bit which is all you can get from the D300 at 6fps. And whether the restricted AF-point spread is likely to be an issue.

Otherwise...

The D610 is (AFAIK) slightly lighter than the D300 (850g vs 925g), and IR's tests show it to be faster (i.e. more responsive) in almost every way. The VF is much bigger and has a higher eyepoint. The low-light performance will take you into another world compared to what you've been used to. There's little to re-learn going from the D300 to the D610, nothing to lose that I can think of and a great deal to gain.

I don't doubt there are some advantages to the Fuji (lighter weight comes to mind) but in most ways it seems like a step sideways from what you have now, and you're going to take a pretty bit hit selling all your gear. Compared to switching not just brands but from DSLR to mirrorless, I feel safe in predicting you aren't going to be running into any functional "gotchas" down the road with the D610.

Best of luck with whatever you decide,
Scott
 
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