Mark240590
Soviet Shooter
I looked at this, considered it but the fact I’ve already got a 1948 FED-Zorki put me off paying this much. If I could see it in person I’d maybe be tempted. But too much of a risk to me, lens looks pretty battered.
Early Russian Lenses, What Features to look for.
- Thread starter Sonnar Brian
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 209
- Views 16K
deltapuppy
Member
It is battered although my experience has been that the fakes tend not to be and so the condition - if it’s salvageable - isn’t necessarily a deal breaker for me. The price is but I am in active conversation with the seller on that point. And FWIW if anyone here has a ‘48 proto J8 for sale I’m interested.
deltapuppy
Member
Does your ‘48 fed-Zorki sport the 1/1000 speed? Apparently some had only 1/500, as the one i linked has, although there’s one on e-bay at the moment with the extra speed stop.
deltapuppy
Member
@deltapuppy
If it was in good usable condition, might be worth it. As non-working, shelf-piece- too much money.
If it was in good usable condition, might be worth it. As non-working, shelf-piece- too much money.
Mark240590
Soviet Shooter
Yes mate, it’s a bit of a split between top speeds on them. I wouldn’t put too much into it because the shutter crate can’t take 1/1000 anyway it’s more a dream speed haha !
dexdog
Veteran
A 1951 J-3 in Contax/Kiev mount. Optical fixture is brass, aperture mechanism is dark gray colored alloy, the ones I have seen previously are black. The variable stand-off ring appears to be blackened aluminum. BTW, the scratches on the internals were already there when I unscrewed the optical block. The shims in this lens are about twice as thick as they need to be to focus properly on a Contax II, it would not come anywhere close to infinity focus. The glass in this lens is in excellent condition, makes me wonder if it did not get used much because the shims were so far off.
MarkWalberg
Established
I just bought a 1951 Jupiter 3. It has no shims at all, and it focuses way past infinity on my Nikon Z6. Haven't tried focusing on a rangefinder yet. Number scratched into the rear group looks like 274. Does that say anything about its history, where and when it was made? I need to make some shims for it, I think. The housing is chromed brass, unlike my 1957 J3, which appears to be gray aluminum. The pictures I've made with it so far loook pretty good.
dexdog
Veteran
I do not know what the numbers scratched onto the rear group mean, but almost every one I ever seen had them. I assume that this is a Contax/Kiev mount lens. All the 1951 Jupiter 3 lenses were made by KMZ in the city of Krasnogorsk, now known as Sergiev Posad, Russia
This has the screw hole and tap for the set screw to hold in the rear triplet. The barrel and fixtures are Zeiss. The rear triplet is most likely Zeiss, and all of it is Schott glass.
MarkWalberg
Established
Thanks for the info. For my 51 J3, I estimated how much shim to use by how many turns it took to reach infinity. I carved a shim from 0.064 inch aluminum shim stock. It is very, very close to reaching infinity now, roughly to 200 ft. I will polish the shim a hair thinner to get fully there. Good enough for using on the Z6. It will, of course, be a lot more work to get it right for a rangefinder camera. One of these days, I'll do it. It makes nice pictures on the Z6 for now.
If you use the lens stopped down at infinity: the Sonnar focus shift will make up the difference. If you get infinity focus perfect at F1.5, stopping down will shoot past infinity.
SO: maybe use the lens for a bit, then decide.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
I realised tonight that I might actually own some German glass disguised in a Soviet shell:
I picked this lens up from eBay back in 2010 - it was rare to see KOMZ-made Industars (and still is, as far as I know), and the fit-and-finish and quality of this one was a lot nicer than the more "normal" 1955 KMZ Industar 22 I'd had for a while. It became my favourite Industar while I was still using FEDs and Zorkis, but the backfocusing when I started using Leicas drove me insane, so it sat in the original bakelite pot (which is lined with blue felt - something I've not seen on other ones!) for over a decade. Of course, that meant when I found it again, it was raddled with fungus. I'm an idiot.
Spent today cleaning it up, and more importantly, shimming it to the Leica standard, and holy hell, is it crisp. Here's the full frame of my test layout (sorry Brian, no fence posts here):
And here's two close-up crops of before and after the shimming:
But here's why I think it might be German glass:
According to SovietCams, this makes it a "PT5770", made in 1949 or 1950. Does that make it a Tessar in disguise? Were the Soviets already using their own glass for Industars by then?
I picked this lens up from eBay back in 2010 - it was rare to see KOMZ-made Industars (and still is, as far as I know), and the fit-and-finish and quality of this one was a lot nicer than the more "normal" 1955 KMZ Industar 22 I'd had for a while. It became my favourite Industar while I was still using FEDs and Zorkis, but the backfocusing when I started using Leicas drove me insane, so it sat in the original bakelite pot (which is lined with blue felt - something I've not seen on other ones!) for over a decade. Of course, that meant when I found it again, it was raddled with fungus. I'm an idiot.
Spent today cleaning it up, and more importantly, shimming it to the Leica standard, and holy hell, is it crisp. Here's the full frame of my test layout (sorry Brian, no fence posts here):
And here's two close-up crops of before and after the shimming:
But here's why I think it might be German glass:
According to SovietCams, this makes it a "PT5770", made in 1949 or 1950. Does that make it a Tessar in disguise? Were the Soviets already using their own glass for Industars by then?
It's probably a Zeiss Tessar, German glass and probably Zeiss elements.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
It does look really nice internally. I didn't spot any obvious distinguishing marks, but a lot of the components fit together incredibly tightly - to the point it was actually a bit of a pain to clean (it took a hairdryer heating up the optical block to allow me to get the front element out). The front name ring is very slightly bent, so if at some point I bother taking it apart again to straighten that out, I'll have another look for any identifying features. Even the lens cap is a damn sight nicer than the typical black plastic ones you usually find on Soviet lenses from the 50s and 60s, though - stamped metal and felt with a nice matt finish.
This really feels like a "premium" package compared to the normal Industar 22. I'd love to know its story and why it was made at KOMZ instead of KMZ. It's marked in Cyrillic, so was presumably for domestic use/sale/distribution?
This really feels like a "premium" package compared to the normal Industar 22. I'd love to know its story and why it was made at KOMZ instead of KMZ. It's marked in Cyrillic, so was presumably for domestic use/sale/distribution?
dexdog
Veteran
I was looking at eBay just now, all ther KOMZ Industar 22 lenses currently on sale were manufactured for use on an enlarger. I wonder if your lens, which appears to be a really good one, is a hybrid of sorts. EDIT: I looked at the archived Soviet cams site, and saw that KOMZ released an Industar 22 in 1949 and 1950.
Last edited:
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
I've not had a lot of time for... well, anything of late, but I did get to take it out for a short walk around a reservoir the day after my last post. I'm pretty impressed with it, even if my partner isn't:
That said, I'm mildly concerned about the performance at infinity; more testing is needed. And more time, too...
That said, I'm mildly concerned about the performance at infinity; more testing is needed. And more time, too...
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
Took a bit of time after work to take a walk to the local park with the shimmed KOMZ Industar 22, and sure enough, the focus point with the lens set to infinity is way out at f/3.5:
Is there a fix for this, @Sonnar Brian? I assume it would involve adjusting the position of one/each element in the optical block as opposed to just ham-fistedly shimming the entire optical block forward as I did to get the close focus working correctly?
(I'm not going to lie: I was hoping the depth of field on such a relatively slow lens would make this less of an issue than with something like a Jupiter 3!)
Is there a fix for this, @Sonnar Brian? I assume it would involve adjusting the position of one/each element in the optical block as opposed to just ham-fistedly shimming the entire optical block forward as I did to get the close focus working correctly?
(I'm not going to lie: I was hoping the depth of field on such a relatively slow lens would make this less of an issue than with something like a Jupiter 3!)
@Coldkennels
My Industar-50, after CLA:
My standard mode of operation, whether J-3 or I-50: set the point of best focus close-up/wide-open to slightly back-focus, but to be about 1/3rd the way into good DOF, as viewed pixel-peeping. You will find that's about as good as most people can focus using the RF. The F3.5 should cover the error. If it is not- the focal length is way off. Look for loose glass, or signs the lens was "operated on" and built from mismatched optics or some other operation to make it look good. I've seen J-3's with mismatched optics that could not work.
My Industar-50, after CLA:
My standard mode of operation, whether J-3 or I-50: set the point of best focus close-up/wide-open to slightly back-focus, but to be about 1/3rd the way into good DOF, as viewed pixel-peeping. You will find that's about as good as most people can focus using the RF. The F3.5 should cover the error. If it is not- the focal length is way off. Look for loose glass, or signs the lens was "operated on" and built from mismatched optics or some other operation to make it look good. I've seen J-3's with mismatched optics that could not work.
dexdog
Veteran
Intrigued by the above posts from coldkennels, I bought a KOMZ Industar 22 from ebay, pretty cheap in nice condition. I removed the lens groups from the barrel, no zeiss serials or parts numbers on either fixture, both fixtures are brass, nicely machined and well-blackened. All visible lens surfaces are coated. Number stamped on bottom of lens mount is 12227
Front lens group in fixture
Front lens group in fixture