Platinum RF
Well-known
Kind of like Voigtlander 40mm f1.4 images, ugly bokeh, if you remove the Elcan replica claim, how much will you willing to pay? I guess $300
ELCAN replica lens posts
- Thread starter scautez
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Kind of like Voigtlander 40mm f1.4 images, ugly bokeh, if you remove the Elcan replica claim, how much will you willing to pay? I guess $300
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Elcan pics look nice..
Nope..not goin there..lol..
Probably around $700- would be a decent price point..
Unless you just had to have it... at the higher price..
But $700- is probably around the wholesale price..
Nope..not goin there..lol..
Probably around $700- would be a decent price point..
Unless you just had to have it... at the higher price..
But $700- is probably around the wholesale price..
raid
Dad Photographer
I agree here with Emile. $700 is a reasonable price.
OK, where can I sign up for a $700 total cost pre-order?
D
Deleted member 65559
Guest
"Reasonable" ? In the real world it is the manufacturer that decides what the street price will be. We did get a smoking deal (delivery pains notwithstanding) on the 8 element. It's not like anyone in this thread actually needs another 50mm lens in order to make photographs. Yes an Elcan copy to put on those 'reasonably priced' Leica M-10s ( 😉 ) (absolutely said tongue-in-cheek)
Ed Schwartzreic
Well-known
I truly have no idea what LLL would ask as a price for the ELCAN. I also do not know whether we at RFF will have a repeat (hopefully not a full repeat) of what happened with the 8-element. I do not know whether Kevin will be involved.
That said, the imaging with the original ELCAN wide open is spectacular, at least in the center of the field. I have seen Kevin's and other persons images. I am eager to try this replica lens. It would not be an everyday lens, unless I was out doing street photography or portraiture as my only goal.
I think there is something about only 4 elements and 8 glass-air interfaces that makes images with this lens especially luminous and 3-dimensional. But maybe such a thought does not make optical sense.
In my article, Peter Karbe was involved in making the MTF graphs. He was of the opinion, based on the curves, that this lens had "good performance". I was not completely sure how to take this statement from Leica's current premier lens designer, but I think it denoted something very positive.
So, don't automatically sell this lens short.
Ed
That said, the imaging with the original ELCAN wide open is spectacular, at least in the center of the field. I have seen Kevin's and other persons images. I am eager to try this replica lens. It would not be an everyday lens, unless I was out doing street photography or portraiture as my only goal.
I think there is something about only 4 elements and 8 glass-air interfaces that makes images with this lens especially luminous and 3-dimensional. But maybe such a thought does not make optical sense.
In my article, Peter Karbe was involved in making the MTF graphs. He was of the opinion, based on the curves, that this lens had "good performance". I was not completely sure how to take this statement from Leica's current premier lens designer, but I think it denoted something very positive.
So, don't automatically sell this lens short.
Ed
raid
Dad Photographer
How about $800 then? 🙂
I believe Ed in his early assessment that this ELCAN replica could be a very interesting lens for special applications. It is impressive that Peter Karbe says positive things about the lens. It is a Leica design after all.
I believe Ed in his early assessment that this ELCAN replica could be a very interesting lens for special applications. It is impressive that Peter Karbe says positive things about the lens. It is a Leica design after all.
ymc226
Well-known
How do I pre-order if I don't have Facebook or any other social media account/. I don't want to start signing up for any of these accounts. Is there any way to contact David Chen or other source that will accept pre-orders?
scautez
Established
Elcan lens posts
Elcan lens posts
The images do have some appeal to them for sure. Was the original Elcan a kind of summicron?
Elcan lens posts
The images do have some appeal to them for sure. Was the original Elcan a kind of summicron?
D
Deleted member 65559
Guest
The Elcan 50 f2 was produced in small numbers about 1972 for the military and matched with black M4 bodies that were badged KE-7A.
D
Deleted member 65559
Guest
I imagine you could leave a message for him on his ad on Reddit.com
https://www.reddit.com/r/photomarket/comments/o8jd8b/scanon_light_lens_lab_elcan_50mm_f2_ke7a_kit/
f.hayek
Well-known
It's a simple design, the trick is in the glass types IIRC. Also had a lubricant for the helicoid that didn't gum up in the extreme cold.
But if Cosina can turn out a highly complex 50 APO with all manner of special glass that rivals the Leica 50 APO for a mere US$999, it's hard to understand why an Elcan replica made in China should sell for US$1700.
Emile de Leon
Well-known
I think LLL..should give us a real good deal on this lens..$400-
As recompense..for the 8E fiasco..
As recompense..for the 8E fiasco..
f.hayek
Well-known
Emile de Leon
Well-known
OK..$500 then..lol..
D
Deleted member 65559
Guest
.....i think the comparison of volume of sales might account for a difference in list price
f.hayek
Well-known
Overheard in the LLL lunch room: "RFF, who??"
According to Jason Schneider at LHSA, "The standard KE-7A outfit included the rare 50mm f/2 Elcan (which stands for E. Leitz, Canada) lens, a unique formula consisting of 4 non-cemented, air-spaced elements designed to withstand the rigors of extreme weather and service in active combat zones. The lens, which was designed by Gary Edwards, Walter Mandler, and Erich Wagner, had a 10-bladed diaphragm providing apertures of f/2-f/16, and it focused down to 30 inches. It was constructed of anodized aluminum, and incorporated lanthanum infrared-absorbing glass and high refractive index optical glass, so, like the lenses above it emits radiation. Regrettably, I have never shot with one of these gems, but it’s reputed to be a superb lens capable of outstanding image quality even at maximum aperture—which demonstrates what you can achieve with custom designed, bench assembled optics and mil-spec quality control."
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Ed Schwartzreic
Well-known
I somewhat doubt what Jason Schneider has to say, from my own researches. But however, we lack the Army - Leitz military contract, so we don't know everything. I will put my article up as soon as the latest LHSA VF is released. It has input from what Dr. Mandler told LHSA years ago, plus a current reminiscence from one of the people involved in the project.
Peter Karbe, ASAIK, did not examine an an actual lens although there is one in the Leica Museum. I sent him the patent, and he generated a ray diagram and MTF curves from that information. Sort of like a musician "hearing" a piece of complex music with just the score.
This is a really interesting lens, but it does have its deficiencies.
Ed
Peter Karbe, ASAIK, did not examine an an actual lens although there is one in the Leica Museum. I sent him the patent, and he generated a ray diagram and MTF curves from that information. Sort of like a musician "hearing" a piece of complex music with just the score.
This is a really interesting lens, but it does have its deficiencies.
Ed
MaZo
Established
I saw an interesting article by Marco Cavina covering 50mm Leica lenses. There's a small chapter on Elcan as well:
The description (via translator, I don't speak Italian), says:
"A simplified variant of the classic 70s 50mm f / 2 is represented by the Leitz ELCAN 50mm f / 2, a lens intended to equip a military rangefinder Leica, commissioned by the US Army and called KE-7A; as told by Mandler himself, the military specifications required an image quality lower than that guaranteed by the contemporary Summicron-M 50mm f / 2 type 11817, and to obtain cost savings a project of a few years earlier was resurrected which also included a 50mm f / 2 consisting of just four lenses, with no gluing surfaces: a lens that is easy to build and not subject to any cleavage caused by rough use. However, this lens did not renounce sophisticated glass: the front lens was made of LaK9, the second element used a glass of exclusive Leitz formulation (672460), the third was highly refractive and the fourth used a Flint glass with lanthanum."
The description (via translator, I don't speak Italian), says:
"A simplified variant of the classic 70s 50mm f / 2 is represented by the Leitz ELCAN 50mm f / 2, a lens intended to equip a military rangefinder Leica, commissioned by the US Army and called KE-7A; as told by Mandler himself, the military specifications required an image quality lower than that guaranteed by the contemporary Summicron-M 50mm f / 2 type 11817, and to obtain cost savings a project of a few years earlier was resurrected which also included a 50mm f / 2 consisting of just four lenses, with no gluing surfaces: a lens that is easy to build and not subject to any cleavage caused by rough use. However, this lens did not renounce sophisticated glass: the front lens was made of LaK9, the second element used a glass of exclusive Leitz formulation (672460), the third was highly refractive and the fourth used a Flint glass with lanthanum."
f.hayek
Well-known
Jason just talks about the basics and it's consistent with what I recall reading in the past. Its simplicity (and deficiencies) are born out of the extreme climatic conditions of the intended use.
Mozart of glass. Love that visual, Ed!
