Rayt
Nonplayer Character
All my current Leica bodies both film and digital were bought used. And 3 of my lenses were bought new 21, 35, 50 all latest Summilux.
Ever bought a NEW Leica body or lens.
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arseniii
Well-known
One time only, a pretty souvenir from New York City a brand new Leica MP .75 from Ken Hansen. Enjoying it till this day! Would probably never buy a new Leica again, especially a digital one with astronomical prices....
nobbylon
Veteran
Got to admit I expected a lot less new buying from this forums membership.
It's still a very tiny percentage of Leica's sales though. It's probably the same on other boards so I don't believe hobbyists and the odd pro are Leica's target. There must be a lot of gear bought new just sitting in drawers etc doing nothing.
I would personally never buy new simply because I don't believe they offer value for money. I'm the same with cars though so it's nothing new being a tight a@@@. The last new items I bought were all Nikon.
jschrader
Well-known
No, never. Would not.
If one does not want to have the latest and newest, there is no need. There is so much good used material on the market.
We should value old things. I am not young myself 😉
Only recycling can save the world
If one does not want to have the latest and newest, there is no need. There is so much good used material on the market.
We should value old things. I am not young myself 😉
Only recycling can save the world
f16sunshine
Moderator
I bought an m8, 35cron aspherical, summarit75, 21elmarit.
All were purchased new 2weeks before I bought them 21 and 75 never mounted.
The camera had a card with a dozen or so out of focus images.
The fellah bought it all during a cruise. I paid $7500. Sold all the lenses, kept the body, and pocketed $500.
I preferred my Biogon 35 and could live with the Heliar75 although the summarit is beautiful.
My inly dealer purchase was an FLE lux35 in 2012.
An xpro1 arrived that same week. I returned the Lux and sold my m8's.
Never conected with the M9 and the M240 was too late. I'm more than content to use fuji for digital and a bessa and older m for my two rangefinder lenses.
If I ever have the dough and loose any more common sense,.... I could buy an S2 and adapter to shoot old contax 645 lenses.
All were purchased new 2weeks before I bought them 21 and 75 never mounted.
The camera had a card with a dozen or so out of focus images.
The fellah bought it all during a cruise. I paid $7500. Sold all the lenses, kept the body, and pocketed $500.
I preferred my Biogon 35 and could live with the Heliar75 although the summarit is beautiful.
My inly dealer purchase was an FLE lux35 in 2012.
An xpro1 arrived that same week. I returned the Lux and sold my m8's.
Never conected with the M9 and the M240 was too late. I'm more than content to use fuji for digital and a bessa and older m for my two rangefinder lenses.
If I ever have the dough and loose any more common sense,.... I could buy an S2 and adapter to shoot old contax 645 lenses.
JHutchins
Well-known
I think there's a false premise here, and that is that Leica makes development and production decisions based on a typical Leica consumer (who we probably really can safely assume is quite well off and who may or may not take photography especially seriously).
Just about *every* manufacturer, and almost certainly every manufacturer of branded goods, has a diverse customer base, some of whom are quite price sensitive and some of whom aren't. This is why economists draw demand curves as downward sloping. A demand curve is meant to sketch out the relationship between price and sales and at extremely high prices only a few units will be sold but as price drops more and more people think -- oh yeah, at that price I'll take the plunge -- and the number of sales increases. The demand curve is the sum of the behavior of many individuals, some of whom are spectacularly wealthy and would buy even if the price were many times what it is and some of whom are not and would only buy if the price were much, much lower than it is. The really important consumers for any manufacturer, though, are the marginal ones. The consumers who would be gained or lost by a particular decision being made by the firm. With one exception, those are the customers that a manufacturer is thinking about as it makes development decisions -- the ones who are on the edge of buying or not buying who might be gained or lost as a result of the decision. And I suspect many of those people are, well, the sort of people who hang out here. I know that I have been on the edge a couple of times (and once bought a new Leica body and another time decided not to buy a new Leica body -- but did buy one used. More about that later).
And I think that shows in Leica's observed behavior, because notwithstanding all the gripey threads, Leica really does act like a company that's trying to win photographers. That requires producing expensive products (and probably more so for a company like Leica which undoubtedly has a much higher cost structure than a company like Nikon). Somewhat oddball photographers to be sure but looking at all but the special editions, the new products being developed by Leica seem like things that are good faith attempts to win the business of people who are enthusiastic about photography.
The special editions are different of course -- those are maybe best explained as price discrimination. As I mentioned above, there are some people who would still buy a Leica even if it were vastly more expensive than it is. But a Leica MP (type 240) has a price and the Queen of England, with all her billions, doesn't have to pay any more for it than I would even though for me the purchase would involve an awful lot of economizing in other areas of my life, maybe more than I could manage and she'd not even notice the lost money. Many companies think, "Gosh, wouldn't it be great if we could charge a fortune to the folks who would pay a fortune without losing all the customers we'd lose if we charged that fortune for all our cameras?" And when those companies think that they start producing special editions -- the idea being make a few changes to differentiate the product from the less fancy one and charge an outrageous price for it. The marginal customers will still buy the normal product at the normal price, the ones who are not price sensitive can buy the fancy version. Production of special editions doesn't mean that a company has abandoned the man in the street user, it means it's trying to keep the man in the street while still making as much as it possibly can off the inhabitants of West Egg.
Finally, even folks who don't buy new Leicas matter in Leica's calculus. The existence of a robust market for used equipment makes the resale value of a Leica higher than it would be if there were no such market. That is something that can be capitalized in the price. You can charge more for a camera that ten years down the road will sell for 20% of its original cost than you can for a camera that ten years down the road will sell for 2% of its original cost. Again, the reason is the marginal user. Someone who's just on the edge of buying might decide to take the plunge instead of pass if he is confident that he can recapture some of what he spent when he goes to sell it (or replace an older model with a newer one if he can sell the older one for enough that the new one seems affordable).
So the fact that many -- maybe even most -- Leicas sell to exceptionally wealthy people is not all that relevant. When it comes to the day to day concerns that drive the direction of the company, what matters are expansions or contractions in sales as a result of the decisions made and those expansions or contractions are, by definition, the marginal purchaser -- the guy who's on the edge, trying to decide whether to buy or not buy.
nobbylon
Veteran
interesting post thx
maitani
Well-known
Never, besides, almost all Leica bodies or lenses I'm interested in, are out of production, with some patience you save 30-50% on retail esp on Leica digital bodies. Almost fell for the SL as a universal does it all camera, I think it's a fantastic camera, but I couldn't justify paying full retail for it.
pgk
Well-known
M8, M8-2 & M9 - all 'new but ex-demo' therefore reduced in price, and as they are used professionally I reclaim the tax so cheaper still. The warranty is potentially worth paying for.
Absolutely new, yes, the 21SEM and worth every penny.
Absolutely new, yes, the 21SEM and worth every penny.
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
photomoof said:
I agree with both of these comments.
For work, new. Unless it's a backup body that's a great combination of price and condition/history. For me, quite happy to buy used now. Much like used cars there are some amazing bargains with just the right amount of use out there.
pgk said:
^^^ That is the reason to buy new work gear in my opinion.
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
Doh. Forgot to answer the original question😱
M8 and M9.
I don't use Leica for work now so unless that changes I wouldn't do it again.
M8 and M9.
I don't use Leica for work now so unless that changes I wouldn't do it again.
Gid
Well-known
M8 (3 of them as the first two suffered sudden death) and D-lux 2.
Dralowid
Michael
M6TTL bought new, I still have it. Thinking about it in retrospect this was driven by the arrival of a bonus that made the purchase acceptable within the economics of the family.
I have bought eyesight correction lenses new also but have lost them all!
I have bought eyesight correction lenses new also but have lost them all!
nobbylon
Veteran
off topic but do you mean correction lenses for Leica?
If so I just read a tip as I've just started using them myself.
A dab of clear nail varnish on the eyepiece thread will secure the lens.
when you need to seperate a drip of acetone into the thread will unlock it.
robert blu
quiet photographer
A little more than 5 years ago I bought my X1 new.
Before I bought my M7.0,58 and a couple of lenses used.
robert
Before I bought my M7.0,58 and a couple of lenses used.
robert
Lss
Well-known
No, so far I haven't. The price point has simply been too high.
Leica has received my money for things like 6-bit coding, though.
Leica has received my money for things like 6-bit coding, though.
Michel154
Established
Summicron Asph. 28/2
Summilux Asph. 50/1.4
Summilux Asph. 50/1.4
Dralowid
Michael
I do indeed and at around £60 new not cheap. Thanks for the tip but I've lost them all and now, as I get older, my distance sight improves...
Erik van Straten
Veteran
MP in 2003.
Erik.
Erik.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
There was a time, pre-digital, where buying a new Leica M body made a lot of sense to people. Buying a second body most times lead to buying a used one and having it CLA'd if need be. As you know, in the age of film, those bodies lasted forever. One usually bought a film camera and had it for years and years. Fathers passed them on to their children and so on. Obsolescence really didn't exist. Nikon even made sure their lenses remained compatible with newer bodies. It was a tool. No one expected digital to ultimately change the game as much as it did.
