Experience and results when using gear

[David_Manning]

Photography is an individual pursuit, generally speaking. Pursue it the way that brings you the most enjoyment. The camera is, after all, a tool...but I like some tools better than others.

Sometimes I take a P&S because I don't want to be weighed down. Sometimes, I use a P&S to challenge myself. Sometimes I use a P&S to better describe the "stream-of-consciousness" I'm experiencing (Moriyama, Anders Petersen, Sobol). Sometimes I use a dSLR because the conditions are challenging. It's cold, action is fast, I have gloves on, etc. Sometimes, I'll reach for the M-style body (X-Pro 1 for me) when I feel like a good walk.

There is no right camera, and nobody should feel like they're short changing themselves one way or another. Sometimes, the subject of our photography is the experience. Sometimes, it's just taking pictures. Sometimes, it's to memorialize and remember.

For myself, personally, I'm lazy and wish I could just walk out the door with a digital P&S every time. Once it comes time to shoot, I realize I prefer an OVF, or want shallow DoF, or large files. So, it's always some kind of compromise. It's actually good to write these words myself...kind of cathartic. I need to read this on occasion. 🙂

 

[benlees]

We all want to put a spit shine on that magic bullet. Ego and mood make it much more interesting. Some days we want to be cool like Moriyama and some days we want epic resolution because, damn it, this is going to good so it needs to be big! I imagine "professionals" just get on with it!

 

[mugent]

One major quality that people want in a camera is 'fun to use' factor. The argument is that if a camera is fun to use it results in the photographer capturing better photos, because a happy person takes better photos.

In my case, digital P&S are the most easy and fun to use, but the results leave me dissatisfied. The dissatisfaction is not with the image quality, its just a sort of cognitive dissonance, and I simply don't feel impressed with the images. I don't get a sense of creative satisfaction from P&S shooting.

Is this experience shared by others as well? Do you take better photos with the camera you enjoy using or there is no 'have your cake and eat it' element in photography/life?

I think taking the *easy* road in a hobby is probably a mistake, it's easier for a fisherman to trawl a fish farm with a net, or just go to the shop and purchase a fish.

My point is, finding the quickest/easiest road to a goal is unlikely to provide satisfaction.

 

[FrankS]

The greater the effort, the greater the reward/satisfaction.

 

[Godfrey]

I think taking the *easy* road in a hobby is probably a mistake, it's easier for a fisherman to trawl a fish farm with a net, or just go to the shop and purchase a fish.

My point is, finding the quickest/easiest road to a goal is unlikely to provide satisfaction.

There is no easy road in Photography. Anything easy, regardless of the camera, is not Photography, it's*just takin' pitchures.

I can put just as much effort into learning and working with a pinhole camera or a point and shoot as I can with an 8x10 view camera. Craft is the work, the technique, etc ... it's NOT the technology.

G

 

[Keith]

I gain a lot of enjoyment out of mastering a particular camera and getting it to fulfill my needs ... and often that can be a lengthy process and success is not a 'gimee!' My DP2M is a prime example but the end result has been very rewarding ... not so with the OMD I bought.

 

[Exdsc]

Is photography entertainment?


What are your thoughts about this question.

 

[FrankS]

Photography is my preferred mode of artistic expression/outlet.

 

[Exdsc]

Photography is my preferred mode of artistic expression/outlet.

That is how it should be but for some of us, I'm one, it seems that the element of entertainment has become mixed up with the creative side of photography.

 

[David_Manning]

Well, I think it IS entertaining, as a hobby. It's a great reason to just explore, walk around, and "see."

Once again, photography is different things to different people...and that's the beauty of it. Especially now that it's so accessible.

 

[benlees]

Photography is an umbrella term, much like art or sport. So it can be entertainment. I find Winogrands "The Animals" quite entertaining, despite its "who's the animal now, huh?" schtick.

 

[Exdsc]

Well, I think it IS entertaining, as a hobby. It's a great reason to just explore, walk around, and "see."

Once again, photography is different things to different people...and that's the beauty of it. Especially now that it's so accessible.

Entertainment is an experience, photography is not about the experience only its about the photos. While experience usually is forgotten, photos are always there to remind you if you did well, tried hard or wasted your time.

Entertainment is also something that is cheap. I mean just visit youtube and you'll find something that entertains you... Even Moriyama says that photographing is not the most fun thing for him to do but its what he wants to do.

And its good that someone mentioned Winogrand, I mean isn't Winogrand the ultimate symbol of the neurotic photographer who uses the experience of photographing as the only way to get pleasure from photography while photos completely fall by the way side?


I don't know, I'm not judging, I'm just throwing some ideas around to see what others think.

 

[noisycheese]

I have no digital cameras, but I do remember the sense of sheer excitement when I finally saved up and got my Leica M6. The first rime using it was not exactly what I expected, and being brought up on slr film cameras, it took a little adjustment. Now it feels like an extension of me and I use it intuitively, but that took time. It is now my all time favorite camera and I wouldn't swap it for the world !

Same here - I have exactly zero digital cameras. And I feel the same way about my Leica MP and M4-P cameras and the lenses I have for them.

There is just nothing better in the world of photography than shooting with a film M camera.

Rent or borrow one for a week - it will leave you totally hooked and grinning like an idiot. 😀 Until you have to return it. 🙁

 

[furbs]

No digital or film P&Ss for me, but I loved my Mamiya 7 the day I got it and now I take it with me whenever I leave the house. Slowly and only by working rolls through this camera it is becoming an intuitive part of my daily experience. When the operation of the camera occurs strictly via neural autopilot I am able to forget it and it naturally raises to my eye and the almost-silent shutter clicks during one of those innumerable daily moments when I have positioned myself such that a visually arresting composition lies before me.

It's a sort of rabid faith in the experience of photographing, probably more akin to Winogrand than the other photographers mentioned. Getting that final print or digital file is almost an afterthought, though I have started processing and scanning my own film to invest myself more into the creation of a final product.

Frankly, I have similar experiences using my other two cameras. If they weren't enjoyable to use I wouldn't keep them. So I can't explain why I only use the MF rangefinder now. Once I can operate it as intuitively as the SLRs I might reconsider how frequently I shoot with it, but those 6x7 negs would be hard to leave.

So yes, in a word, I do it for "fun" 😀

 

[dct]

The term P&S vs serious camera doesn't nail it, in my opinion. It is more how you use the gear, not which type of gear it is.

For decades I had only a Rollei B35. It is full manual, but I used it P&S mode, keeping the aperture in the comfort zone with enough DoF and using only forgiving 200 ASA colour film. Around the 9/11 events I bought my first own film SLR. How did I use it? 99 % in P mode and AF. This turns even a sophisticated camera with many manual controls into a P&S. How was the experience? Not really awarding. Were the images good? Most of it went all right, few of them good. Until there it was my mediocre friends and family snap time. Same as most of the FB images coming from mobile phones nowadays. And it was annoying making photographs!
My first digital compact was capable of PASM modes too, but I also used the P mode only. It was - in fact - a "P&S camera".

All of this changed when I started learning and using all the manual overrides and possibilities, if you control aperture, time, focus manually. Add using different film emulations and you are on the fun experience side. From now on, my digital compact "P&S" camera turned into a Aperture priority or Manual camera too. I mastered the bell and whistles of my film SLR. My creative phase started.
And it lasts to this day. Using RF cameras brought me - from my experience - one more step into this direction.

Do I make more and better photos today? No and yes. Also using digital cameras, I reduced the number of P&S images I did decades ago. It is an awarding experience taking the time (and having the mindset to do it!) for correct exposure and focus settings, correct framing, distance and angle. And - with experience - having already the final image in mind.

[...]Getting that final print or digital file is almost an afterthought[...]

It is, definitly. Because the journey is sometimes hard work, but it is, well, its own reward !

 

[GaryLH]

Dct

U have essentially nailed it..... P&S is a mentality, u can essentially turn almost anything into a p&s, even a Nikon fe2.. Set a 28mm lens at f8 and the hyper focal distance, just point and shoot to paraphrase your example.

As I said in my earlier post, I really see nothing wrong w/ this in general..

One needs to know when to change that mentality.. I might be taking pictures of friends and family to record our fun and time together, but that does not mean that if I spot something that is interesting, I won't change my mode of operation and start looking at the that subject with a complete set of different rules and ways of doing business. Once I have got my shot, I switch back..

Personally, in terms of the camera, it only comes into play in terms of what one is after in terms of the final quality of the image... But at the end of the day, I have seen some great pictures made w/ pin holes, instamatics, etc. if the image has the right look and impact does it really matter?

What is more important is your own mental approach to it all IMHO.

Gary

 

[David Hughes]

Hmmm, if I've got a certain shot to take then I prefer what I call neutral cameras, meaning cameras that don't get in the way of the shot. Usually that means a clear view-finder and controls where my fingertips are when I hold it. I've several good cameras that have oddly placed controls; power switches beside the shutter button, shutter buttons that you have to look for and so on.

OTOH, I get a certain amount of pleasure from coaxing every last ounce of performance from simple or cheap flea market bargains; usually P&S's. And they have the advantage that other people don't take them seriously, or don't feel menaced by me with them.

Regards, David

 

[Roger Hicks]

Hmmm, if I've got a certain shot to take then I prefer what I call neutral cameras, meaning cameras that don't get in the way of the shot. Usually that means a clear view-finder and controls where my fingertips are when I hold it. I've several good cameras that have oddly placed controls; power switches beside the shutter button, shutter buttons that you have to look for and so on.

OTOH, I get a certain amount of pleasure from coaxing every last ounce of performance from simple or cheap flea market bargains; usually P&S's. And they have the advantage that other people don't take them seriously, or don't feel menaced by me with them.

Regards, David

Dear David,

Highlight 1: Absolutely. The term I use is 'transparent': I can see 'through' the camera to the picture.

Highlight 2: I used to. Then I decided that I'd rather concentrate on the pictures, rather than have a really great picture (we all get lucky sometimes) be let down by poor technical quality -- or, indeed, failing to get it altogether because the camera wasn't up to shooting it.

I get a bit annoyed with the "Great photographers can get great pictures with any camera" argument, usually illustrated with the Bert Hardy picture. It's a stunt. If it were anything else, Bert Hardy would have used a Box Brownie all the time. The fact that he didn't is rather a convincing argument that he (like most of the rest of us) preferred a faster, sharper, focusing lens with a choice of shutter speeds, to say nothing of a better viewfinder.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Rodchenko]

Coming from a long line of engineers, I like things to do what they are supposed to, and that works on both sides of this discussion. I like my fully manual cameras that just work, responding to my inputs to create an image I have taken the responsibility of defining in detail. I want the reliability that when I make that setting, that thing happens, and it depends on whether I've assessed/measured the light correctly, framed well, timed carefully and captured the scene I am looking at or the image derived from that.

Equally, this morning, I walked to work through Southwark using my Olympus Trip. Ostensibly a little brother of my beloved 35SP, it just needs me to think about which of four pictograms to choose for focussing distance, then point and shoot. Could hardly be simpler. Yet it produces great images (well, as good as I can manage with my limited talent). What it doesn't do is allow me full creative control over shutter speeds and apertures, so sometimes I don't have the depth of field I am hoping for, and it does stick its tongue out at me as it gets dark.

But that's all what it's supposed to do. And sometimes it's nice to be free to compose in the viewfinder, and not worry about the rest.

 

[tunalegs]

Some people might argue that you cannot have art without craft, but one thing is certain, you cannot have anything of value without craft, even if it means something that is for personal pride.

Holga, lomo and other toy cameras also offer fun experience and their images have a certain look but its impossible to take pride in their results, and secondly the inability to control them makes one feel less involved with the process.

Realize for one moment, that there are billions of people on this planet, and the vast majority of them have experiences and opinions that differ from your own. 🙂

Different people are satisfied by different experiences. It's why all sorts of people do all sorts of different things. It may be impossible for you to take pride in the results obtained by use of one of those cameras, but one thing's for sure a whole lot of people are perfectly satisfied with their use. They wouldn't be using them otherwise.

There is no point in using a tool which you do not like to use if you have any choice in the matter. So of course it's a no brainer - you use the tool which satisfies you! Honestly that so many cannot grasp the concept of people being satisfied by different things and in different ways is sort of surprising to me. I guess I too have to realize we're all different. 😀

...

I get a bit annoyed with the "Great photographers can get great pictures with any camera" argument, usually illustrated with the Bert Hardy picture. It's a stunt. If it were anything else, Bert Hardy would have used a Box Brownie all the time. The fact that he didn't is rather a convincing argument that he (like most of the rest of us) preferred a faster, sharper, focusing lens with a choice of shutter speeds, to say nothing of a better viewfinder.

Cheers,

R.

I don't. I don't think it's a stunt either. It's a simple truth. It's like saying "we eat food". What one can do and what one prefers to do are obviously different. It is also obvious that most cameras are "good enough" most of the time. It is really quite easy to get excellent results out of a simple box camera. Most of the time. The exception is all the other times when it is totally useless and inappropriate - ie. if your subjects are moving fast, or you need close focus - or it's become a little darker than average outside. Then you either need a better camera, or alter your judgement about what a good photo looks like.